[WEC] Porsche Prototype Discussion

[carbon_titanium]

Originally Posted by JoestForEver

Never thought my post could become a war trigger and I surely want no Corp. order at all. Anyway, I think the 2003 car was run by Joest as they didn't present at Le Mans, or they were having their hands full with R10?

2001-2002:
audi R8 FSI: audi sport team joest
bentley exp speed8: bentley racing = RTN

2003:
audi R8 FSI: backed customer teams
bentley speed 8: bentley racing = audi sport team joest

2004-2005:
R8 FSI: backed customer teams

of course audi sport, dallara and team joest were working on the R10 TDI that debuted in 2006.

[chernaudi]

The Bentley program was mostly run by RTN and Richard Lloyd Racing (Formerly RLR/GTi Engineering), and was supported in '03 by Audi Sport Team Joest, namely a significant number of personnel from Joest Racing worked for Bentley/RLR that year.

[Spyderman]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/112887

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/112887

Called the Timo/Romain split from the very start. Makes perfect sense.

[Mal]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

I sincerely think that there will be no VAG team orders regardless of the situation.
The benefits obtained from a Le Mans win is directed at brands, and not to the "holding company". Although many Porsche buyers will buy an Audi as a second car, many more will not. The same is true for Audi buyers. Consumers are loyal to brands. Not to Corporate structures.
Audi's importance (from a sales perspective) is much greater to VAG than Porsche. On the other-hand, Porsche is the more profitable company (per unit sold). VAG has very little to gain from messing with this "balance".
In fact; VAG has much more to gain by showing that its two brands are competitive (hopefully), each one offering very different solutions. Regardless of which brand wins, as long as the "loosing" brand shows competitiveness VAG stands to gain.

I hope (and think) you are right - but my point is that if Toyota are competitive it removes all doubt as they would have to first and foremost to try and beat Toyota

[Spyderman]

Agreed! Toyota will be very strong.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Simmi

Called the Timo/Romain split from the very start. Makes perfect sense.

Yes, I've had the announced line-ups on my entry list since I first put it up.

[Mike E]

Regarding all the chat about VW favouring Audi or Porsche it makes no sense whatsoever for them to do this considering the tens of millions of euros being spent on the two programs.
Furthermore, Audi's recent relocation of their motorsport department to a new, purpose built facility suggests that they are taking all of this driving around in circles business very seriously indeed. OK, they will run their GT and DTM operations out of here anyway but surely LMP1 will remain a significant part of the mix for a while yet considering the money spent (unless they do something daft like F1).

I think we are in for a mighty battle between all three manufacturers in LMP1, provided the new formula works as intended.

I also have a feeling that Toyota may sneak in under the radar with a very quick car. I hope so.

https://www.audi-mediaservices.com/p..._be_based.html

[Velociraptor]

Originally Posted by GTfour

and secondly, don't forget it is still Herr Doktor Ferdinand Piëch behind it all in the end. He will allways favour Porsche above Audi...

Piech favours Audi more than anything under the VW group umbrella - except maybe Ducati

[PascaLM]

Yes, we all hope that Audi and Porsche will be in La Sarthe and WEC together for next year or more. But let's remember several facts : Porsche had built a prototype before 2000 which had never raced ("the most fantactic car I drove", according to Bob Wollek). Bentley won Le Mans as there wasn't any official R8, as said above.
Another thing : the Audi winter camp was in the Canary islands this year instead of in the Alps : an ultimate reward for the team ?

[carbon_titanium]

Originally Posted by PascaLM

Yes, we all hope that Audi and Porsche will be in La Sarthe and WEC together for next year or more. But let's remember several facts : Porsche had built a prototype before 2000 which had never raced ("the most fantactic car I drove", according to Bob Wollek). Bentley won Le Mans as there wasn't any official R8, as said above.
Another thing : the Audi winter camp was in the Canary islands this year instead of in the Alps : an ultimate reward for the team ?

The porsche lmp "2000" program was folded because the budget was shifted to the street cayenne project. For different reasons PSA did the same in early 2012, withdrawing the WEC 2012 program and shifting budget and resources to the roadcars production.

[Starfish Primer]

Peugeot was under a severe crisis with massive layoffs, the sporting program was seen as a luxury in hard times.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by carbon_titanium

For different reasons PSA did the same in early 2012, withdrawing the WEC 2012 program and shifting budget and resources to the roadcars production.

You really think so? It's more about the image. Laying off workers while "driving around in circles" just doesn't look good. Of course it saves some money and it all adds up to the total savings but in the bigger picture it is not that huge expense.

[BudLightJaguar]

Originally Posted by deggis

Laying off workers while "driving around in circles" just doesn't look good.

That's probably the reason. Because in that case they'd carry on with racing programme, French labourers wouldn't just shake coins in their pockets and pick nose complaining and whining at the same time like...let's say Finns would do.

[carbon_titanium]

Indeed that WAS the reason, peugeot crisis was too deep to let the brand to have a so expensive racing program. I just said that like in 2000 porsche shifted money from a racing program to the roadcars production, the same did peugeot in 2012. Of course for different reasons.

[PascaLM]

Originally Posted by Starfish Primer

Peugeot was under a severe crisis with massive layoffs, the sporting program was seen as a luxury in hard times.

That was the main reason, almost for the image and a little for the money.
But this is off-topic.

So, I just hope that Audi will go on in WEC next year, even if a Toyota vs Porsche battle should be fine in LMP1.

[Starfish Primer]

Originally Posted by PascaLM

That was the main reason, almost for the image and a little for the money.
But this is off-topic.

So, I just hope that Audi will go on in WEC next year, even if a Toyota vs Porsche battle should be fine in LMP1.

Is too little money but is also matter of internal image. Is complicated to negotiate redundacy packages with the unions while you are spending millions on motorsport. The Union will tell, give those millions to the workers!

[Spyderman]

So ...judging from the news posted in the Audi R18 thread (re testing at Sebring), it seems that the 919 is still quite far from reaching the reliability necessary to be minimally competitive.

[Spyderman]

https://twitter.com/Andrew_Frankel/s...98009372336128

"How serious is Porsche about it's LM programme? Their 2015 car will be all new and they're working on it now, before the 2014 car has raced."

[PascaLM]

Their programme and preparation should be as strong as their media campaign.

[Brake dust]

Their programme and preparation should be as strong as their media campaign.

Agree! I'm a Porsche fan - but the amount of Porsche AG media generated is incredible. Would have preferred the "speak quietly and carry a "big stick" approach".

[lms]

Originally Posted by Brake dust

Agree! I'm a Porsche fan - but the amount of Porsche AG media generated is incredible. Would have preferred the "speak quietly and carry a "big stick" approach".

+1

[PorscheFanNo1]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

https://twitter.com/Andrew_Frankel/s...98009372336128

"How serious is Porsche about it's LM programme? Their 2015 car will be all new and they're working on it now, before the 2014 car has raced."

Sounds like they found something during testing/development that they belive is a better solution but will require significant redesign of the car. Maybe the V4 will only ever see LeMans once?

[templer]

Originally Posted by PascaLM

Their programme and preparation should be as strong as their media campaign.

The Porsche technical stuff is and was not really happy with their own PR guys as the media campaign stir up too high hopes for their return.

The tech guys of course know that they have much to learn and will be not on the same level of Audi and Toyota in their first comeback year.

What is mysterious for Insiders are the decision to make their own race team instead to trust in well experienced Team like Audi did with Joest or Toyota with oreca.

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

https://twitter.com/Andrew_Frankel/s...98009372336128

"How serious is Porsche about it's LM programme? Their 2015 car will be all new and they're working on it now, before the 2014 car has raced."

Nothin odd about that Spyder ..... its the Porsche way .