F1 V's LMP

[miatanut]

Agreed on all points!

[Mal]

Sportscar racing really needs a Sky F1 style TV package - imagine being able to choose which class battle you want to watch and follow it as and when you want.

[GT6]

The technology exists and perhaps we will see it soon especially if the popularity of WEC continues to grow

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

People are funny, even silly ... so long as they keep buying enough tickets that racing can survive, I will tolerate people.

That's where club racing wins again. No one buys any tickets and it still survives

[Rodger Davies]

Originally Posted by Adam43

I went to Le Tour and Le Mans last year

When watching Le Tour no one seemed interested in the racing they were all just saying how brilliant they were for watching this rather than going to a Velodrome which was no where near as good.

This comment seemed very appropriate to me: on my way to Sweden for the WRC at the moment, and I'd never made that connection to road cycling before.

[TF110]

I just like racing in general. When nothing is on I even watch Nascar There shouldnt be a "versus", there should be enough love for each to go around.

[Articus]

Originally Posted by Mal

Sportscar racing really needs a Sky F1 style TV package - imagine being able to choose which class battle you want to watch and follow it as and when you want.

Now I think being able to choose whether to follow LMP1 or GTE would be enough to satisfy me. Anymore and I'd have to lecture you about how we can't have nice things...

[GT6]

It is good that not everyone agrees about racing otherwise we would have no choice

[JacobP]

Originally Posted by miatanut

Have you looked at the F1 rulebook?

It's been quite while since I have, but I remember it regulates engine displacement, number of cylinders, "V" angle, bore spacing, engine length, engine minimum weight, and even engine C of G height!

Why does this really matter. Do you really think that the number of cylinders and their placement are the real research issues perplexing the engineers of road-relevant cars? What really matters is what really goes _inside_ each cylinder, the cylinder head, as well as inside the batteries and the rest of the energy recuperation systems. The number of cylinders is truly inconsequential. I am totally agree with the poster who mentioned that while being fairly open series, architecturally speaking, LMP1 relies on the subjective BoP rules to actually keep the cars on the same pace. And so as I watch the race, it's always in my mind, why invest in the best technology, why invest lots of money at all if the subjective BoP rules are going to bring the cars to the same pace?

[Pontlieue]

Originally Posted by JacobP

Why does this really matter. Do you really think that the number of cylinders and their placement are the real research issues perplexing the engineers of road-relevant cars? What really matters is what really goes _inside_ each cylinder, the cylinder head, as well as inside the batteries and the rest of the energy recuperation systems. The number of cylinders is truly inconsequential. I am totally agree with the poster who mentioned that while being fairly open series, architecturally speaking, LMP1 relies on the subjective BoP rules to actually keep the cars on the same pace. And so as I watch the race, it's always in my mind, why invest in the best technology, why invest lots of money at all if the subjective BoP rules are going to bring the cars to the same pace?

LMP1 doesn't rely on BoP. It's clearly defined in the regulations how much fuel you get allocated, based on fuel and hybrid class. Think of it like the turbo/NA equivalence rules F1 had in the past.

[FAS33]

What's LMP?

[Mt. Lynx]

LawnMower Prototype...

[Pandemonium]

For those of us that like cars LMP is a thousand times better than F1. The racing of the 2014 season was also a thousand times better.

[miatanut]

Originally Posted by JacobP

Why does this really matter. Do you really think that the number of cylinders and their placement are the real research issues perplexing the engineers of road-relevant cars? What really matters is what really goes _inside_ each cylinder, the cylinder head, as well as inside the batteries and the rest of the energy recuperation systems. The number of cylinders is truly inconsequential.

That's just an example. The rulebook also says the car has to have not more or fewer than four wheels. All sorts of dimensions are regulated in detail. Now they are regulating how many gear ratios a team can use. They spend million$ on aero, but they are regulating how many gear ratios they can use? Back in the 1960's when F1 budgets were a fraction of what they are now (adjusted for inflation), teams changed gear ratios. After the rulebook so highly regulates the car, they all have virtually the same performance envelope, so what happens then? They can't pass each other, because they all have virtually the same performance envelope. So what happens then? They add gimmick technologies like DRS. It's all part of a downward spiral.

People criticize sportscar racing for BOP, and I agree BOP is a bad thing, but in sportscar racing you get deals like this weekends Bathurst 12H where after 12 hours of racing, there are four cars practically nose to tail, with the podium changing in the last couple laps with the winner coming from back from third place, largely because while the lap times are virtually the same, they have different performance envelopes, creating natural passing opportunities.

Originally Posted by JacobP

I am totally agree with the poster who mentioned that while being fairly open series, architecturally speaking, LMP1 relies on the subjective BoP rules to actually keep the cars on the same pace. And so as I watch the race, it's always in my mind, why invest in the best technology, why invest lots of money at all if the subjective BoP rules are going to bring the cars to the same pace?

I don't. See below.

Originally Posted by Pontlieue

LMP1 doesn't rely on BoP. It's clearly defined in the regulations how much fuel you get allocated, based on fuel and hybrid class. Think of it like the turbo/NA equivalence rules F1 had in the past.

Right!
You go to the table and decide which flavor you want to build. Everybody is working from the same table, but different teams choose different flavors. The result is cars with different performance envelopes, resulting in natural passing opportunities.

Oh, and technological development.

[Adam43]

And there is no politicking to get things changed ;-) It's always unfair, it seems, to someone.
As you know, I'm a fan of sportscar, but I am enjoying putting across the counter arguments to both 'sides'.

Pandemonium, your phrase seems to suggest that anyone who doesn't think LMP racing is thousand times better doesn't like cars. A tactic politicians use a lot. This is wrong as I, and many others, do not think that and like cars.