Who is the least talented F1 champion?

Yoong Montoya · 26 Oct 2002, 19:34 (Ref:414143)

There is no such thing as an undeserving F1 champion, but who would you say is the least talented of all the F1 champions. I would say Mike Hawthorn. He won only 3 races in his F1 career, and only 1 of them in his title year.

ss_collins · 26 Oct 2002, 21:09 (Ref:414226)

true but I bet he could drink you under the table and most marshals for that matter now thats real talent!

Vitesse · 26 Oct 2002, 21:43 (Ref:414230)

Yoong Montoya: I would venture to suggest that Mike Hawthorn had more talent in his little finger than you can possibly aspire to. He became a Formula 1 driver on merit (as all champions do) - he was not a pay driver, although I'll grant that he came from a privileged background: you didn't drive for Ferrari in the 50s without being talented.

marcus · 26 Oct 2002, 22:38 (Ref:414258)

I would agree Hawthorn was very talented as are all the world champions, I really dont think you could call any of them untalented except maybe at singing ?????

Total-F1 · 26 Oct 2002, 22:50 (Ref:414264)

Do my eyes deceive me? Did he say he wasn't talented?

Who was the least talented? Eddie Irvine came within a Gnat's whisker of the biggest coup since sliced bread...

Ian Smith · 26 Oct 2002, 22:51 (Ref:414265)

Thingmabob the Finnish drive drove for williams in the 80's/90/s Gawd he was so talented I can't recall his name

Lee Janotta · 27 Oct 2002, 00:52 (Ref:414325)

Eh, I dunno... _Maybe_ Phil Hill. Von Trips was running away with the title when he died, and the '61 Ferrari was simply and unbeatable car. It's the only year he was really a factor.

Alan Jones was a late bloomer, but certainly not untalented... Overall, though, it might be him.

The list of F1 champions is really pretty elite, when you look at it.

**Adam43** · 27 Oct 2002, 11:23 (Ref:414611)

Thingmabob! Keke Rosberg? Who drove for Williams in '82-'85 and McClaren in '86 (and some Fittipaldi's, Wolfs and other similar machinery before that).

A great driver. Not a Senna or Prost, but extrememly quick. I might be being a tad unfair to him, but perhaps he didn't have the race craft (in terms of looking after his car not overtaking), but that was only because he knew one speed - flat out.

1982 was an odd championship (and year overall). Lots of bad things happened. Driver's killed. Bad politics. Even Colin Chapman died at year end. Almost would have been better if they had just forgot about the championship, but Keke won it and he had some great drives that year.

It is a dificult question, because all have a lot of talent. The single title people are going to figure well in this. I'll suggest Farina. I understand he was a bit of a dirty driver too (?).

TimD · 27 Oct 2002, 12:16 (Ref:414637)

Not dirty in the modern sense of the word, but forceful. Farina had a reputation for not backing off in a fight for a corner, and wasn't averse to giving your car a little tweak to remind you he was right behind. But that is small beer compared to the antics that seem to be fostered in every modern series from Formula Ford upwards.

I have trouble with these topics, because unless there is a blatant example of - say - a hot-rod driver landing a World Championship, one is effectively asking "who is the least talented of these recognised virtuosos"!

Armco Bender · 27 Oct 2002, 22:55 (Ref:415087)

Keke Rosberg was extremely quick,he raced Formula Atlantics down here in '77 and '78,he wiped the floor both years,he was streets ahead of the rest.He also suffered from driving dodgy cars so he had to flog them to the limit to get something out of them.He gave Theodore its one and only F1 win,and until he went to Williams he really didn't have a competitive drive.The turbo/wing cars didn't really suit his balls to wall driving style though.He was very much like Jochen Rindt in driving styles.Alan Jones also was a hard charging driver,he had to flog those uncompetitive Surtees round before he went to drive the first Saudia/Williams,he put up some great drives in that.Again probably another driver whos driving style wasn't suited to the Turbo point and squirt wing cars of the day.

DAVID PATERSON · 29 Oct 2002, 03:10 (Ref:416057)

I see no-one's mentioned Damon Hill yet.

Sneaks away grinning mischievously.

Lee Janotta · 29 Oct 2002, 05:01 (Ref:416095)

Y'know, I was _so_ tempted to say Damon... But he _did_ have that amazing drive at the Hungaroring in '97.

**Adam43** · 29 Oct 2002, 18:00 (Ref:416556)

Suzuka '94.

**Adam43** · 29 Oct 2002, 18:03 (Ref:416562)

TimD I think you are probably right about Farina.

It is also interesting that you say "Formula Ford upwards" when describing, er, undesirable driving. Do you think in some ways it could be from modern "F1 downwards". Setting an example!

And you are right: They are all great!

JohnSSC · 29 Oct 2002, 18:53 (Ref:416591)

TimD - I agree that the title here is a recipe for disaster! I mean it is like: "Who is the least talented cellist? Pablo Cassals or Yo Yo Ma?" Yikes! The amount of talent needed to become WDC is outrageous. When you include all the other factors: car, weather, safety, politics etc and throw in the differences in eras as far as type of car, how can you say with any certainty that Driver A is better/worse than Driver B?

I think I will watch "In Car 956" (again!).

Amaroo Park · 30 Oct 2002, 08:31 (Ref:417160)

Quote:

Originally posted by DAVID PATERSON
I see no-one's mentioned Damon Hill yet.

Sneaks away grinning mischievously.

Damon Hill would be the least talented F1 champ of all. He has done nothing before or since F1 and only won by being in the best car.

I have seen Jones race touring cars and seen the races he had wheel to wheel with Gilles. An quite honestly those of you have said Jones obviously haven't seen him race. Anyway who is still Patrick Head and Frank Williams favorite drive???? That would be Alan Jones

Flaggie · 30 Oct 2002, 23:11 (Ref:418012)

Quote:

Originally posted by Yoong Montoya
There is no such thing as an undeserving F1 champion, but who would you say is the least talented of all the F1 champions. I would say Mike Hawthorn. He won only 3 races in his F1 career, and only 1 of them in his title year.

The only thing I'd say there is that there were also a lot less Grands Prix back then as well. I make no call on driver talent.

Teletubby · 31 Oct 2002, 15:20 (Ref:418572)

Surely Damon Hill contributed a huge amount to the Williams being the best car, he was the test driver after all!

Dan Friel · 31 Oct 2002, 20:07 (Ref:418774)

Rosberg was awesome.. my first motor racing memory is watching him on Sunday afternoons..

Tempted to suggest Hill.. Suzaka 1994.. he was the best.. but only one race.. but then who else has taken on M. Sch??

Was Mansell that talented? But he made up for it with true grit and determination.

Perhaps best to ask who was the most talented chap to ever miss out on a championship - but that would be too easy!

Jordi · 31 Oct 2002, 22:41 (Ref:418935)

Every champion had something better than the others, whether it was pure talent (Fangio, Clark, Senna...) or the best out there in terms of setting up a car (Prost, Lauda...) or the ones who fought very very hard and never surrendered (Graham and Damon, I'd say...)

Yes, It'd be easier to ask which talented drivers never won... (Gilles, Moss, Reutemann, Ickx, Berger, von Trips... and a long etc...)

Damonist · 12 Nov 2002, 15:52 (Ref:427108)

Being a Damon fan I will still try to be "neutral" in this question by stating that Damon was not the most talented but also not the least talented. Considering that he started very late with race cars (24, I believe he was?), it is amazing that he could go all the way to the championship after all. But, dont forget that he was a test driver for a couple of years and was even denoted "the best test driver ever" by someone in the know-how. And lets face it, you can not become an F1 World Champion without talent, best car or not.

However, there is a full scale of drivers who qualify in the "talented driver" range and of course, Schumi and Mika H are on top of the list. I can not say that I know enough of previous years of F1 Racing to name the "least talented" driver, but I am very sure Damon is not the one.

Like someone else said earlier, "Hawthorn was very talented as are all the world champions, I really dont think you could call any of them untalented except maybe at singing?????" Very true!

TimD · 12 Nov 2002, 16:49 (Ref:427132)

Welcome to the forum, Damonist.

I'm always impressed by Damon's dad. Graham, I believe, didn't actually drive a car of any kind at all, let alone race it, before he was 24 years of age, and in a decade he was winning Grands Prix. Now that's an achievement in my book.

Damonist · 13 Nov 2002, 08:55 (Ref:427595)

Thanks, TimD!

Graham was a mechanic or something, wasnt he? And for some reason he got the chance to drive and did pretty good.

In F1Racing, the magazine, Murray Walker was picking his favourite dreamteam in F1 and chose Schumi and Fangio as race drivers and Damon&Graham as test drivers because they were the best testers of all time or something like that. And Murray should know what he is talking about!

Damonist · 13 Nov 2002, 09:02 (Ref:427599)

By the way, just as a reflection:

People say that Damon only won because he was in the best car, but is there any F1 World Champion during the last, say, twenty years, who has won the title w-i-t-h-o-u-t being in the best car???

R · 13 Nov 2002, 09:17 (Ref:427608)

Ayrton Senna and Michael Schumacher?

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