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Old 5 Dec 2016, 15:26 (Ref:3693919)   #346
hondafan37
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Originally Posted by Speed-King View Post
It didn't help that the small RWD coupe was almost dead in Europe during the 2000s...
Sure is true, and now there are also few small coupe RWD. The brands are more interested in GTI type cars, like Megane RS, Focus ST, Scirocco, Civic Type R Etc....I guess the market demands more of these cars.
Maybe the TCR is the answer to that and a GT5 is not needed.
Personally I prefer the small coupes RWD to the GTI, the Toyota 86 is a fantastic car for me.


Endurance -info says that 4 more brands would be entering GT4 in a medium term.
I think one is Audi with the R8, another could be Lexus with the RC-F that already raced in VLN SP8 this year and also it was testing in Sebring recently.
I do not know what the other brands might be. Ferrari?
http://www.endurance-info.com/fr/la-...e-un-peu-plus/

Last edited by hondafan37; 5 Dec 2016 at 15:38.
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Old 5 Dec 2016, 17:02 (Ref:3693943)   #347
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GT4 the new GT3.
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Old 5 Dec 2016, 18:53 (Ref:3693970)   #348
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GT4 the new GT3.


I'd rather we stay with GT3 as the new GT3... I find GT4 too stock for the most part.




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Old 5 Dec 2016, 23:09 (Ref:3694017)   #349
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They're evolving quickly though, both in aero and price tags.....

History will repeat itself, I'm sure.
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Old 5 Dec 2016, 23:16 (Ref:3694020)   #350
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I'd rather we stay with GT3 as the new GT3... I find GT4 too stock for the most part.




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But Gt3 is getting expensive. tripling in price in the last few years

GT4 is more affordable although even they are starting to get up cost
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Old 6 Dec 2016, 04:27 (Ref:3694078)   #351
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But Gt3 is getting expensive. tripling in price in the last few years

GT4 is more affordable although even they are starting to get up cost
Growth, Peak, Bust, repeat. Crazy how even in a BoP class prices go up. Rules makers fault for allowing faster cars every year or two. And just where do GT Cup cars fall as far as state of tune?
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Old 6 Dec 2016, 09:05 (Ref:3694127)   #352
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The thing I think needs to be remembered about GT4 compared to GT3 is that there's one fundamental difference between the two that could negate the significance of the pricier cars... And it's NOT BoP - after all, GT3 has shown us that BoP alone does not prevent skyrocketing costs.

No, it's the allowable amount of changes to the car. GT3 costs skyrocketed to the point where it can't be done cheap because the rules allowed for so much to be done to the cars that even with BoP there was no way to build a car that could compete without going to extremes.

GT4, on the other hand, allows very FEW alterations to the car. Under those circumstances if you start with a good base, you could very easily make a car that can stay competitive - possibly even withOUT the assistance of BoP. You just need sufficient technical know-how.

All one needs to do in order to see this clearly is look at the 2015 European GT4 champions - a somewhat outdated Camaro built for Conti GS. Up against Porsches, BMWs, and specials like the KTM X-Bow and SIN R1, a lineup which a Camaro should have had ZERO chance with as few modifications as GT4 allows, it still took the championship.

(sadly, the car was destroyed in a shop fire midway through the 2016 season)

This isn't necessarily going to prevent the more expensive cars from taking over for a while, but it provides GT4 with a built-in safety net that GT3 simply never had. There will ALWAYS be cars that can be quickly made into GT4 cars when the rug comes out from under the big money cars, and they can very easily be made competitive against the remnants of the pricey cars.

Put simply, as long as the rules don't open up to further allowable modifications, it will always be possible to do GT4 cheaply. And that is the class's biggest benefit going forward.
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Old 6 Dec 2016, 11:47 (Ref:3694154)   #353
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Ephaeton should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridEphaeton should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridEphaeton should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridEphaeton should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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All one needs to do in order to see this clearly is look at the 2015 European GT4 champions - a somewhat outdated Camaro built for Conti GS. Up against Porsches, BMWs, and specials like the KTM X-Bow and SIN R1, a lineup which a Camaro should have had ZERO chance with as few modifications as GT4 allows, it still took the championship.
In other words, "BoP". I hate these twenty ton five thousand horse powers behemoths amidst the nimble GT4s. It hurt to watch in PWC as well. That's already a level of BoP I'd rather not see. Same applies to the upcoming AMG GT4. This heavy-duty warhorse shouldn't be let in, IMO...
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Old 6 Dec 2016, 12:02 (Ref:3694159)   #354
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Unfortunately GT4 will go the way of GT1 and GT3 is heading.

Each year someone is allowed one little extra bit and then everyone else has the right to have it. This was meant to be a road car based championship with very few changes other than striped out interiors with rollcage, uprated brakes and suspension to allow setup changes for use on track. Aston stuck to this as did lotus and Porsche all have road cars available in very similar spec.

Mclaren started the year in British GT bringing their 570s along, it had centre lock wheels, additional wing etc. and a price tag of £60k more than the porsche! Other manufacturer are now going to look at that and want those bits on their cars, so they are allowed to make it fair and the price rises and this will happen year on year until none of the gentleman drivers can realistically afford to carry on so they will go to the next step down and the process will start all over again.
GT5 is taken b Ginetta so they better start thinking of a new name or write LT a very big cheque

Porsche now have carbon doors, bonnet and few other bits on the Cayman none of these are fitted on a road car but have been added to try and keep up and to extract a few more ££££ out of the customers pocket.

GT4 needs to be kept to road based cars with road equipment. If i was running there series i would restrict it too all panels have to be same material as the road car it is based on, perspex window for safety, engine has to be the same as does gearbox, suspension systems have to remain original design, dampers and springs can be changed to allow ride height adjustments, uprated brakes (no carbon). NO additional aero over standard road car, then balance them out with weight, height and engine maps for turbo cars. if this was then restricted for 5 years we may have a stable formula that can work for a number of years and keep a steady flow of drivers coming through from lower ranks looking to move up.
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Old 6 Dec 2016, 17:30 (Ref:3694253)   #355
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Originally Posted by FormulaFox View Post
The thing I think needs to be remembered about GT4 compared to GT3 is that there's one fundamental difference between the two that could negate the significance of the pricier cars... And it's NOT BoP - after all, GT3 has shown us that BoP alone does not prevent skyrocketing costs.

No, it's the allowable amount of changes to the car. GT3 costs skyrocketed to the point where it can't be done cheap because the rules allowed for so much to be done to the cars that even with BoP there was no way to build a car that could compete without going to extremes.

GT4, on the other hand, allows very FEW alterations to the car. Under those circumstances if you start with a good base, you could very easily make a car that can stay competitive - possibly even withOUT the assistance of BoP. You just need sufficient technical know-how.

All one needs to do in order to see this clearly is look at the 2015 European GT4 champions - a somewhat outdated Camaro built for Conti GS. Up against Porsches, BMWs, and specials like the KTM X-Bow and SIN R1, a lineup which a Camaro should have had ZERO chance with as few modifications as GT4 allows, it still took the championship.

(sadly, the car was destroyed in a shop fire midway through the 2016 season)

This isn't necessarily going to prevent the more expensive cars from taking over for a while, but it provides GT4 with a built-in safety net that GT3 simply never had. There will ALWAYS be cars that can be quickly made into GT4 cars when the rug comes out from under the big money cars, and they can very easily be made competitive against the remnants of the pricey cars.

Put simply, as long as the rules don't open up to further allowable modifications, it will always be possible to do GT4 cheaply. And that is the class's biggest benefit going forward.
But with the big manufacturers getting involved I am not sure they will keep this strategy.
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Old 6 Dec 2016, 19:20 (Ref:3694289)   #356
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But with the big manufacturers getting involved I am not sure they will keep this strategy.
Well, ask yourself this question: What purpose would it serve to change the strategy?

GT4 fills a spot in GT racing that nothing else does - that's why it was created in the first place. GT3 evolved to fill a different gap that opened(the one left by the collapse of GT1), but there's no opening that it would suit GT4 to evolve to fill. It's slipped into a perfect niche and it is unlikely to be moved beyond it.

If something changed and there was an opening for GT4 to evolve into, that'd be different. But as things stand right now, there isn't. It makes no sense to change the strategy for the class.
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Old 7 Dec 2016, 14:40 (Ref:3694545)   #357
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I can see GT3 becoming less popular in future and dissolve at the end.
(although I admit expect this already a couple of years; so far I am wrong )

About GT4. If big manufacturers get involved also politics will follow. It's no longer only about the private teams/drivers and fans.
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Old 9 Dec 2016, 07:23 (Ref:3694937)   #358
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This is why I think Grand Sport becoming GT4 is a mistake.
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Old 9 Dec 2016, 17:57 (Ref:3695040)   #359
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Speed-King should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpeed-King should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpeed-King should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpeed-King should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
...and here's the Bimmer:

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Old 9 Dec 2016, 18:23 (Ref:3695047)   #360
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In Dubai, the @BMWMotorsport M4 GT4 will be raced by Jörg Müller, Ricky Collard and Dirk Adorf @24HSERIES

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...and here's the Bimmer:

Because of the dark tinted glass I assume this is a mockup car?
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