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20 Feb 2020, 15:59 (Ref:3958773) | #126 | |||
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the level of preparation across all the teams is extremely impressive. again its early but im hoping this means we are in for a very competitive year. |
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20 Feb 2020, 16:18 (Ref:3958779) | #127 | |||
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at least a short term solution as they try to move back up the field. (getting way ahead of things)if RP can challenge for the occasional podium and if they can carry that momentum into next year's cost cap formula, then its a whole new ball game. right! perhaps Ferrari are the ones sandbagging this year. lots of C3 and the harder C2 runs (possibly with heavy fuel) so who knows where they, or RB, are at relative to Merc. |
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20 Feb 2020, 18:17 (Ref:3958800) | #128 | ||
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20 Feb 2020, 18:31 (Ref:3958806) | #129 | |
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That steering system is very cool and absolutely going to be banned. It's up there with the third pedal and mass damper, where they're clearly legal, but theres going to be something which it gets banned under but it doesn't make sense.
Very cool system. Surprised Merc showed it off on camera that early. |
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20 Feb 2020, 19:08 (Ref:3958816) | #130 | ||
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Standard features on a Lada,a loose steering wheel and wobbly front wheels.
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20 Feb 2020, 19:55 (Ref:3958829) | #131 | |
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From the video I have seen of the Mercedes steering system I can't see how you could ban it-the direction in which the wheels point is controlled by moving the steering wheel.A good bit of lateral thinking by Mercedes and I have no doubt that every engineer at the other teams will be looking for hairs to split in the wording of the rules,or worse,referring to the "spirit of the rules" and trying to justify a protest.Sufficiently vigorous effort might enable them to deflect the obvious question "why did they think of it and not us"?
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20 Feb 2020, 20:02 (Ref:3958831) | #132 | ||
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20 Feb 2020, 20:35 (Ref:3958841) | #133 | ||
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20 Feb 2020, 20:52 (Ref:3958844) | #134 | ||
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It won't be on the cars next year as a moving steering wheel, that's for sure. But the concept exists, like brake balance, so I can see it being integrated into cockpits as a shift handle if it is allowed to remain. The primary reason I can see for outlawing it is one of safety. Simply making a rule that the steering column must be fixed, in terms of fore and aft movement, is a simple fix - if a fix is needed. |
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20 Feb 2020, 21:26 (Ref:3958853) | #135 | |
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Also, Mercedes claims they have kept the FIA technical team in the loop as to the system. So it should not be a surprise to anyone other than the other teams. Now, the question is how loud might they complain. But it appears to be legal.
My guess, it will remain for this season. Potentially go away in 2021. Richard |
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20 Feb 2020, 21:32 (Ref:3958855) | #136 | |
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We all like a bit of innovation, so full marks to Merc for thinking of this. Of course things like this have the potential to spiral out of control, so I’m sure the FIA will be monitoring to make sure it doesn’t get silly
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20 Feb 2020, 22:07 (Ref:3958862) | #137 | ||
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Could possibly argue that toe varies according to steering angle (Ackerman steering principle) and therefore this system is just a variation and therefore it is legal. Going to be interesting to see what happens, really nice thinking though. |
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20 Feb 2020, 22:24 (Ref:3958867) | #138 | |||
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so in the lead up to next year's cost cap and new design philosophy, FOM may have to show a heavy hand in order to set the standard that they want to see followed for next season. or perhaps they may love this idea. i dont know how much it would cost for the other teams to develop it. maybe its cheap or maybe such mechanical solutions will aid with the following/turbulent air problem. im not sure what effect this tire movement will have on tire life but maybe this is exactly the type of innovations FOM is looking for more of? money vs innovation with a good dose of politics involved...very happy F1 is back! |
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20 Feb 2020, 22:34 (Ref:3958868) | #139 | ||
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To get to the kernel of the matter,I would suggest that what they are doing is moving the steering wheel to change the direction in which the wheels point.Would you seriously suggest that it is outside the rules to do such a thing? |
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20 Feb 2020, 22:42 (Ref:3958871) | #140 | ||
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Personally, I hope that the "we didn't think of this idea" contingent fail to get it banned, at least its something new. |
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20 Feb 2020, 22:54 (Ref:3958874) | #141 | ||
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We haven't had anything like this since 2010, when the double-diffuser and McLaren's F-duct were subsequently banned for the following season. It'll be interesting to see if this meets with a similar fate.
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20 Feb 2020, 23:36 (Ref:3958887) | #142 | |
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Even if it's "legal" they will find a way to ban it. Just history repeating...
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21 Feb 2020, 00:42 (Ref:3958895) | #143 | |
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This article speculates that the DAS device is regulating the camber of the wheels which would make far more sense than regulating the toe.
https://formulaspy.com/f1/vettel-say...is-weird-67989 Headline is Vettel saying that the system looks difficult to control, preparing the ground for a ban for safety reasons? |
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21 Feb 2020, 01:24 (Ref:3958896) | #144 | |||
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https://youtu.be/U_uKHNJLSQs https://youtu.be/2s7ScavfXwE |
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21 Feb 2020, 01:37 (Ref:3958898) | #145 | ||
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I can see that "safety" is the easy way to try to ban it. Richard |
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21 Feb 2020, 05:03 (Ref:3958911) | #146 | |
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I think it’s pretty clear that it changes toe and not camber. Changing toes has a clear affect on acceleration and top speed...
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21 Feb 2020, 06:16 (Ref:3958912) | #147 | |||
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You say adjusting suspension settings on the move is illegal..... how do they get round that with their adjustable roll bars as found/used in every category of racing from F1 down? Technically that is adjusting the suspension. Not trying to pick a fight, just an observation. |
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21 Feb 2020, 07:24 (Ref:3958925) | #148 | |
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Adjustable roll bars were banned about 30 years ago!
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21 Feb 2020, 07:42 (Ref:3958928) | #149 | ||
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I still think this will be banned. This is how the mass damper was banned. Keep in mind that the mass damper wasn't even exposed to the outside air and they still argued it was an aerodynamic device. While its view in the past had been that they do not contravene the technical regulations, recent evidence and an escalation in development by some teams has made it clear to us that the principle purpose of these devices is to improve the aerodynamic performance of the car". The FIA insisted that the regulations demand that any part of the car that influences its aerodynamic performance must remain fixed and immobile in relation to the sprung mass. Mass dampers directly influence the ride high and with that downforce and loading of the tire contact patch. Device potentially permitted the use of stiffer suspension settings and can be seen to indirectly influence the aerodynamic performance of the car. FIA technical regulations are specific in this area: 3.15 Aerodynamic influence : With the exception of the cover described in Article 6.5.2 (when used in the pit lane) and the ducts described in Article 11.4, any specific part of the car influencing its aerodynamic performance : - Must comply with the rules relating to bodywork. - Must be rigidly secured to the entirely sprung part of the car (rigidly secured means not having any degree of freedom). - Must remain immobile in relation to the sprung part of the car. Any device or construction that is designed to bridge the gap between the sprung part of the car and the ground is prohibited under all circumstances. No part having an aerodynamic influence and no part of the bodywork, with the exception of the skid block in 3.13 above, may under any circumstances be located below the reference plane You could sensibly argue that the steering wheel has to rotate and that's fine. But the fore and aft movement is not a requirement. It's a brilliant system. But I don't see it lasting. |
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21 Feb 2020, 08:17 (Ref:3958931) | #150 | |
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That the supposed pinnacle of motor racing might ban this innovation makes me sad. There is now no possibility of F1 engineers being allowed to innovate at all so why bother. In fact F1 is a dead end as far as innovation is concerned nowadays where it used to pride itself on new ideas that the teams came up with. Did someone say a spec racing series??
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