Monoposto at Silverstone - Page 3

blossy · 30 Apr 2004, 20:51 (Ref:957317)

I am sorry Kickstart but you have got your facts wrong
1 yes rockingham was down on entries but we still had 14 entered
2 they are not all young in barc i know at least 8 drivers over 30 who are all still competitive
3 it is definitely not too serious everyone helps each other
4 you wouldnt even be able to run your car in mono without all the help you have had from some dedicated barc runners
so in summing up i still think mono is at best a second class championship for running renaults in for the reasons stated earlier. i am not knocking anyone who does it. consequently you should not try and run down barc renault on this or any other forum as you may find your parts supply dry up........

kickstart · 1 May 2004, 09:14 (Ref:957680)

Blossy, I suggest you re-read my last posting. I did not say that all the drivers were youngsters but facts are facts, 9/10 drivers racing at Rockingham is far from impressive.
I like many other drivers enjoy racing with full grids as it helps to guarantee actual racing whether it is for 10th or 20th place. I am sure that if you tried Mono or F4 you would enjoy it.
I don't think that a Renault could win in Mono but it will certainly run top 6/10 with a decent driver as Jeremy Unsworth showed last year. To win in Mono you really need to have either an ex F3 chassis or a Comtec chassis with 2 Ltr 16v power. However the cost and reliability of a Renault, for me makes it a good option for both of these championships and certainly with a quick driver, which I do not profess to be, it could win in F4.
I hope that your numbers improve, but my own view is that the BARC championship is coming to the end of its natural life.
I think that the tenor of your last message says everything about how "friedly" your championship is.

Comtec Renault · 1 May 2004, 09:38 (Ref:957694)

I agree Kikky, we are the ones who have full grids Record numbers in 2lt at Silverstone last race so we should feel proud of the Club, I wish the Barc Renaults all the luck in the world , the cars still look very good and if it keep the youngsters away from me all the better-haha,We have to now look to the future with Mono and make some big decisions on the development of the engines ,ie what are we going to allow in and what not to allow!!!

blossy · 1 May 2004, 16:14 (Ref:957928)

Certainly BARC is friendly as i am sure many of our drivers would agree. There is never an air of animosity against any competitor. so much so that between a lot of the teams we have managed to keep these fantastic cars running at affordable prices. You still dont get my earlier comments which mean if a car is blatantly uncompetitive in a championship WHY RUN IN IT ? furthermore why should we put ourselves out to help people like you kickstart just so you can slag us off through this forum. Finally why dont you contact Dennis Carter at BARC and let him tell you himself that despite the machinations of individuals like you BARC Renault will be around for a long time to come

diz · 1 May 2004, 16:29 (Ref:957934)

Just sticking a spoke in here, because that's what I like to do.

I'm sure if this post had been made late last season - but about Zippy we would have seen Dennis Carter replaced by 'dearly departed'; BARC by BRSCC and FR by Zippy. From 'Despite the .....' onwards would have been exactly the same.

blossy · 2 May 2004, 07:24 (Ref:958403)

Sorry Diz you've lost me there???

diz · 2 May 2004, 09:00 (Ref:958446)

Quote:

Originally posted by diz
I'm sure if this post had been made late last season - but about Zippy we would have seen Dennis Carter replaced by 'dearly departed'; BARC by BRSCC and FR by Zippy. From 'Despite the .....' onwards would have been exactly the same.

blossy, What I was trying to say was

Quote:

Finally why dont you contact GRANT STEWART at BRSCC and let him tell you himself that despite the machinations of individuals like you BRSCC FORMULA ZIP POWERERED BY FORD AND SANCTIONED BY THE MSA will be around for a long time to come.

In other words, just by changing the name to any other formula, we have seen this type of post many times before and probably will many times again.

kickstart · 2 May 2004, 11:03 (Ref:958491)

Blossy, I don't think that for one moment I have slagged off your championship off in this forum or anywhere else. As to your other comments I think we will just have to agree to disagree.

Comtec, I guess that your comments refer to alloy blocks and injection/throttle bodies. It is difficult to see how the mono club could not allow this equipment in at some point, as over time engines will increasingly go from iron to alloy blocks. However I am not convinced that a huge hike in horsepower would be to the club's benefit. Low cost racing has to remain at the heart of the Mono and 750 club's agenda.
My preference would be to have a horsepower limit instead, but the difficultly is knowing how you could enforce this.
Congrats on the Brands results - are you out at Donington with F4 in a couple of weeks ?

blossy · 2 May 2004, 11:10 (Ref:958501)

yeh you are probably right diz
but youve gotta stick up for your chosen championship.
the only problem i have with mono is the amount of money the guys spend to run in it with uncompetitive cars. if thats what they want to do thats fine but people like kickstart are spending lots of money with the BARC Renault lads because that is the only place he can get the parts for a 97 tatuus and then go on here and tell us it is dying
It all sounds a bit 2 faced to me. i dunno why he doesnt run the car in a BARC round and face the blokes he is running down and then see for himself that it isnt how he is describing it. oh and by the way we have at present 18 entries for pembrey 15th and 16th may if you are interested kickstart

andy97 · 2 May 2004, 17:36 (Ref:958728)

Good luck to the BARC F Renault guys - if you can average grids of 15 plus throughout the season you deserve to be on anyone's calendar, however if grids drop below this number (& this should be true of any series) then its time to merge with Mono or F4 or whatever. BARC F Renault used to appear to promote itself as a career path ie, the message used to be that if you did well in this then you might get picked up by one of the National Renault teams - I do not know if anyone has REALLY succeeded in doing this but I doubt that it happens now. In that case, enjoy the racing in a good club championship and have fun but slagging off Mono or F4 just because they are different is really missing the point of club motorsport.

As for the relative costs of competing in BARC F Renault Vs Mono or F4, I am sure that there are people spending loads in both - testing, new tyres etc etc but, equally, I suspect that there are also people enjoying themselves on a shoestring in both. Certainly Mono - in all of its categories - can be excellent value. Mono 1800, for example, is probably the best kept secret in club motorsport (unfortunately) - cars are available for £4-5 grand and 30-40 lap old FFord Zetec tyres can be picked up for £10 per tyre. That's cheap motorsport but it does not mean that standards are low and the competitors any less enthusiastic than in other series. Indeed, one or two people have switched to Mono recently because they found that the day with Mono was more enjoyable than in the categories they previously raced in, and that includes BARC F Renault. And, enjoyment is what it should be all about.

blossy · 3 May 2004, 19:07 (Ref:959613)

Wotcha Andy
the career path is still there in BARC
we have moved a driver on into TOCA x2, British GT'S x2, Ascar,and TVR Tuscans since the end of 2002. Now i do not slag off mono as a championship at all but i happen to know that the money Kickstart is spending to run in mono with a completely uncompetitive car would see him through a full season in BARC. I know the argument that grids are small and that is undeniable but they are getting better and i am sure there will be no problem retaining championship status in the future. However if all the people running uncompetitive cars in mono came back to BARC we wouldnt be struggling for numbers and they wouldnt be in uncompetitive motors. Simple innit

Comtec Renault · 3 May 2004, 20:42 (Ref:959738)

blossy you have to ask yourself why people with as you put it uncompettitive cars are running in mono!I think you will fid its because they want to- you see if I wanted to race a fast single seater what could I race in,as I do not want to race against young kids who hope to be the next F1 star , with all Daddys dosh to smash and grab the pots on offer. and also who says its the car maybe by Kickstart admission he has some way to go as a driver? I think a well driven Tattus BARC Renault could win a Mono 2ltr race outright if was pushed hard.you see you are not stuggling because of Mono or F4 its because thats what people want to race in, come to a 750 club meeting,it will blow you away how many cars and happy drivers you will see,300 at a 2 day meeting is not out of the ordinary.Mono is on the up this season people want to race for fun and to maybe race in a nice car because they can,not because they are making up the numbers.If I could find a 2ltr Championship to race my car in I would but the best one is in the US and I do not get many weekends off, so I race in what I can,first because I can and I still enjoy it, bus mans holiday if you like, but I know I could not run against the young kids,I wish I could but I can not

kickstart · 3 May 2004, 21:14 (Ref:959773)

Comtec, i suspect you are being a little modest on the driving front - Lee in F4 is no slow coach and is probably the youngest driver in the A class by 15 years and yet you were leading him at donington and beat him on a number of occasions last season.
Have you ever put Westley Barber in your Mono/F4 car - I wonder how much quicker he would go ? On that topic the results in ARP F3 this year have amused me - the class B 1991 car winning and setting fastest laps against much later and more expensive cars. Just goes to show what a talented driver can do.

Blossy we do seem to have got off on the wrong foot, all I can say is that it is horses for courses and that F4 and Mono suits me fine but that I have nothing whatsoever against BARC F Renault and hope you all enjoy a fun season.
What I do find curious is where have all the old F Renault cars gone - the manufactures must have sold maybe 80/100 of so of the 95 - 99 generation cars and yet there are so few of them still racing. Perhaps they have gone to the same mysterious place where the F Renault 1700 cars have gone...

Comtec Renault · 3 May 2004, 21:26 (Ref:959793)

Er no way , if I ever put Barber or Sttodart in my car then thats it, I know they could run rings around me, so no never ever. I recon the car can go a good 3-4 secs faster maybe more, but if I keep them out and only sell replicas to 90 + Kilo Gentelmen racers then I should be ok, and yes Lee is very good and young but I recon my cars a bit better at the moment!!! but he will get it there. I have some good ideas for my next upgrade 05 car so I think I can just stay ahead.I think on a one lap run if the cars were wighted up I could hold my head up,but its the fitness and youth thing that lets me down,you see I love CHIPS and I hate Gyms.

Lola · 4 May 2004, 14:43 (Ref:960457)

Having read many points regarding the introduction of fuel injection into
mono 20000 I would like to raise a few points without laboring on issues
already in print.
Mono 2000 has been a very competitive championship for many years and I
believe this is due to the stable and sensible engine regulations. Carbs
offer many significant advantages:
* Ease of track side maintenance
* Readily available parts ( Aldon, Tweaks, Burton etc)
* No scruteneering required at events
* Maintain engines at a safe bhp figures for the chassis in use (
below 200 bhp)
* Off the shelf kits available comprising of ignition, manifold and
carbs. These may come pre mapped or an hour or two on a rolling road such
as S.T.S will get you running
* Extremely reliable. Only maintenance required is a clean now and
again and change of filter.
* Helps maintain sensible power outputs from all engines in use.
By the introduction of throttle bodies we will open a can of worms.
* Many cars in mono 2000 will become obsolete overnight.
* Throttle bodies and E.C.U will become a £2000 must have.
* Difficult to police.
* 200+bhp engines. This could be done very easily from the many
modern variable valve engines on the market. Is this safe?
* Reliability issues as 'standard' road engines will struggle with the
extra work required from them.
Why change? Regulation stability is what we have. How many championships
have died with technical changes? We now have running 'competitive' engines
in mono 2000 from Ford, Vauxhall, Toyota and VW which in its self shows it
can be done. It can be done with others too.

schomosport · 4 May 2004, 17:09 (Ref:960600)

Quote:

I would like to raise a few points without laboring on issues

Labor it all you want Lola - I have no desire to switch from carbs.

Jeez Comtec, 3-4s quicker? I can't get anyway near your times now! Methinks you too modest.

blossy · 4 May 2004, 18:20 (Ref:960685)

Kickstart, the cars are out there alright. We can pinpoint most of the 2litre cars with no problem. the only problem is that most of the people who own them either cant run them (because of cost) or wont because of running in mono etc. All the 1700 cars are either owned by Thruxton race school or Matuszak Motorsport apart from a few exceptions.
The 1700 class is now defunct in BARC anyway. Good luck in mono 04 but i notice you live in cheshire so please come and see us at Oulton in July and you will see it is not just young kids running around at the front. I can keep my car well up there and i am 41!. Finally the one make championships have pioneered a level playing field in motorsport without generally letting the costs get silly. of course it is possible to spend 20 to 30k a season if you want but it really isnt necessary. I can run at the front for around 8k and i can assure you my car is absolutely pampered. So all i am trying to say is that BARC Renault is in no way as bad as is being made out, after all BARC seem to like us cos we keep getting title Billing as well as garages at most rounds and the prize money from Renault UK helps as well.

Comtec Renault · 4 May 2004, 20:19 (Ref:960817)

Thats nice were all mates again, I agree lola and Scomoto? I do not want to spend any more money,I wish the rule,s would stay as they are but I fear that people will force threw change, I will vote agaist, but I think every year it will get harder to win the vote to stay as we are.

blossy · 5 May 2004, 06:10 (Ref:961154)

You could always come and do BARC Renault.......
HEE HEE

andy97 · 5 May 2004, 08:28 (Ref:961222)

I certainly don't understand why blossy thinks that a good proportion of the BARC F Renaults are in Mono - I can only think of one or two, and one running in F4 as a guest.

In answer to Lola's points, I would just like to point out that there are other categories within Mono rather than just Mono 2000! The issue of new engines and injection systems etc etc is therefore not just a Mono 2000 issue. Mono 1800 already allows throttle bodies in (on Mk 2 1600cc 16V Vauxhall Juniors only) as a means of levelling performance with F Ford Zetecs and 2 litre F Ford (Pinto) 2000s so the principle has been established.

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with doing something similar for all of the Mono categories as long as the principle of sticking with standard road engines remains. For example, if some one wants to run in Mono 2000 with an 1800 alloy Toyota engine that pumps out similar power to a 2 litre vauxhall then let them (weights limits might have to be adjusted to allow consistent power to weight ratios). In my view, the club should look at power outputs of standard modern alloy engines with VVC/VTEC etc and allow them in with appropriate weight adjustments for each category. Its adds technical interest, might even lower costs (as modern engines find their way in to the local scrappy or other categories of racing) and may make the use of modern F3 chassis easier as these are designed to run with modern alloy based engines such as the Mugen (based on a Honda VTEC) etc.

After all, chassis technology is allowed to move on so why should not engine technology - No one is advocating sticking to F Vauxhall chassis & the club readily accepts carbon fibre F3 cars with sophisticated underbody aerodynamics but wont allow alloy engines or other new fangled developments to run. I just think that the club has to move on, especially as, increasingly, the engines being produced for road cars are alloy - Duratec, K-Series, Honda VTEC, Toyota VVC etc.

By the way, I have no axe to grind as I can't afford to run anything other than my FVJ anyway!!!!!!

Comtec Renault · 5 May 2004, 08:46 (Ref:961237)

Yep I see you point, it would make some sence if we all could agree, but the problem is getting a committee to all agree on the same thing at the same time!!!

Triple J Motorsport · 6 May 2004, 15:22 (Ref:962630)

John Miller

Just spoke to Robin Knight and he informed me my Mygale FFZetec SJ00/01 will not be accepted next year! No plans to let in 2001 spec cars!

Might do some races in the invitation class I this year and next though instead. I known there's no difference between a SJ00 & SJ01. And only the front wish bone centres and body work are different on the SJ03 and SJ04. No performance difference anyway!

Because of the Van Dieman RF02 (being the same as RF03 & RF04) you'd think the cut off would be Pre 02 as it was last year in the BRSCC championship.

John

Comtec Renault · 6 May 2004, 19:03 (Ref:962811)

If its a 00 its ok now !! but if not you may have a prob, I did no know that they would not up the age every year, Thats a bummer as we have a 02 Mygale in 750 F4 trim that I hoped we could run in Mono in a few years.

JohnMiller · 7 May 2004, 07:04 (Ref:963131)

750MC F4 Class D is pre-2001 Zetec so a Mygale 00 is most certainly alright and has been run before - Barry Pomfret ran a car for an owner/driver last year, although they will make you fit a smaller restrictor (2 minute job). You don't want to take too much notice of what Robin Knight says.

750MC Class A does not have any age limitations I think.

Mono runs 4 years or older 'commercial' chassis

Triple J Motorsport · 7 May 2004, 08:36 (Ref:963205)

I am too honest it's effectively full 2001 spec so Robin's refusing my entry into Class E? Pre 01 FFZetec (Although the website says pre 99!).

I know at Donington earlier this year there were many 2001 spec Mygales!

Anyway not bothered about what class I run in as long as I am on the track with the other FFZetecs.

I assume all the F4 cars run on the track at the same time? Or do different classes run at different times?

John

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