Quality not quantity

[pink69]

Alan Gow was interviewed by crash.net about the fact we had only 12 cars turn out today at Donny for the opening round. Compare this to the 33 that started at Monza in the WTCC. Gow said he wasnt worried cause he expects there to be 19 - 20 cars by Brands, not everyone was ready in time for Donnington. I hope this is the case cause at Donnington it reminded me of 2000 when we had 3 cars each from Honda, Vauxhall and Ford and a few privateers thrown in for good measure. Anyone know who else is likely to be appearing in the coming rounds??

[JAG]

You could JUST about get away with a dozen Super Tourers racing around as they were quite spectacular to watch.

Can the same be said about the current S2000/BTC machines?

[BootsOntheSide]

In 2000 and 2001 we had a whole second race going on behind them, so there was always something to watch. this year most of the track was bare, and it must've been excruciating for trackside to have a huge gap of time with no cars (barring maybe Proctor and Williams) going past. I can imagien where a few extra cars will come form, but I've no idea how we can really get that many more. Alan Gow has lied before about the size of the field - is he doing it again? Even if the racing was quite good, this is surely one of the most depressing BTCC weekends ever.

[Craig]

Good point, Boots. In 2001 Toca were so embarassed by the tiny field in the first sprint race that they never ran it in that format again - from round two they added the production class to every race to fill the grid out. I wonder if anyone would be interested in bringing a few production cars out again this year? Or would it be too embarassing for them to hold their hands up and admit they need to do something?

[Kicking-back]

I imagine Alan Gow will be working feverishly with people who have BTC or S2000 spec cars to ensure deals are done to get more on the grid for Thruxton.

[Craig]

Hope so cos I am still thinking about going to Thruxton as the Seats look pretty good at the moment

[SPARK Msport]

I hope Gow isn't making false predictions just to keep the fans happy for now, then for us to get to mid season and still have only 11/12 cars. But i'm sure Plato complaining that "the rules aren't fair" won't make the situation between ETCC and BTCC spec cars any easier! But hopefully and figures crossed, there will be more cars out soon.

[spanner]

Is Alan Gow trying to cling on to the BTC rules as long as possible? too long? Surely in the current climate of WTCC going big he should be encouraging people to slowly switch to the S2000 cars. Watching it today i just felt so pathetic with so few cars, cars running to our own car class, its hard to believe we had one of the best touring car series in the world once! I was thinking if he had switched rules we could have had huge grids by now.

[runnyhunny]

Originally Posted by JAG

You could JUST about get away with a dozen Super Tourers racing around as they were quite spectacular to watch.

Can the same be said about the current S2000/BTC machines?

YES! As someone who has observed both from the side of the track... they look exactly the same: fast!

I actually prefer the 'BTC Touring' cars, with their various shapes/sizes, interesting bodykits (although I despise Max Powered chav-mobiles!) and better exhaust sound.

[Peter Mallett]

Sounds to me like they should go back to what Touring Cars is all about. Making family saloons go quick but not changing the mechanicals. (By that I mean keep the standard geabox configuration).

[JLD]

Today is the first time for years that I've missed a BTCC meet at Donington.

I don't mind the drive (I was at media day) or the admission fee, but I want it to be worth the effort, and for me it wasn't.

[bigjon]

bits of good action today...poor field - much more interesting wtcc and gt action in monza i'm afraid.

[TomS]

There is the issue with the rules but i imagine the BTCC has suffered from the success of the WTCC. Thompson has left, Priaulx left 2 years ago and i imagine that if WTCC had smaller grids then the BTCC would have larger grids. However there are loads of cars eligible for the BTCC that arent out there. What happened to the Arena run cars? Where was Hughes in the MG? and why are there so many drivers without a drive this year???(chilton, reid, morrison and also a few drivers in other championships that could easily be in BTCC...Boardman judging by todays performances for example)

However fantastic racing for the majority of the races especially race 3.....a grid of 30 cars doing that would be heaven!

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by pink69

Gow said he wasnt worried cause he expects there to be 19 - 20 cars by Brands, not everyone was ready in time for Donnington.

I really hope he’s right but for now I’m struggling to work out where these extra 8 cars are going to come from.

Now that Chilton has taken his chequebook to DTM will see anything of Arena this year? The only hope is that Rover’s current difficulties put enough of a question mark over the MG DTM project to tempt Chilton to reconsider.

WSR have pretty much admitted that they currently do not have enough budget to complete an entire season, and judging by the lack of an sponsor decals on Collard’s car today they aren’t wrong. Is there any sign of another driver? If a driver doesn’t have a sponsor already he’s going to struggle to get one after the season has started.

Nothing so far from GA. From recent history I suspect if they do appear it will only be one car perhaps with the occasional second car depending on whose cheque clears that week.

Team Firstserve with either Richard Marsh or John Batchelor, depending on who you talk to - unless they’ve done a huge amount of development over the winter (so that’s a no then) that car will never be competitive and either Richard or John will only ever be making up the numbers.

HPI still have another Lexus to come. Difficult to say how much of a difference that will make as the team treated Donington as an extended test session and clearly have a long way to go.

The only other possible not on the original entry list is Jason Hughes in the Kartworld MG but from I understand if and when he does show it will only be at selected meetings.

Not an additional entry but I have concerns over Mark Proctor. The team came to Donington with zero test miles. We know the car is capable of more and I’m sure Mark is but like HPI the team has a lot of work ahead of it. My concern is not so much how competitive he can be but the total lack of any sponsorship decals on the car.

“Give me ten or twelve cars fighting nose to tail and firing wing mirrors off and finishing within tenths of each other, rather than 30 cars strung out with a minute or two between them,”

Problem is we don’t have ten cars fighting nose to tail. One the face of it Neal Eaves finished the third race a few tenths apart but they weren’t exactly fighting for position – there was no way Eaves would have been allowed to battle with his teammate. Same story at SEAT with Plato/Hines in race one and Plato/Pickford in race three. Whether Hines or Pickford could have actually overtaken Plato is debatable, the fact is they never even tried.

Leaving Donington with a group of friends the parting comments were not the usual ‘see you at Thruxton’ but more ‘should we even bother?’ It’s time to see what other events are on that weekend – looks like I’m going to miss my first BTCC meeting in over five years.

[rdjones]

I have to agree with everything Redshoes says there, when I got to Donington both last Tuesday and yesterday morning I was disapointed by the lack of numbers of the grid.

I really hope there are more cars to come. What I want to what has happen to all the cars which we saw last year and have been seen in the classifed section of Autosport ie:- The 2 GA Astra's and there Alfa (I understand they have a new car for 2005), the 2 Team Dynamics Honda Civic's, the 3 2004 spec works Astra's (I think one went to TCR and team kept one of the others) and the Edenbridge BMW's. These cars should have been snapped up by someone and should have been out racing today.

As for Thruxton, I will be there only because I already have my tickets and that I am also hooking up with a uni friend who I have not seen in ages who lives in the area. But if things don't improve I might not go to all the rounds has I had orginally planned and go off and watch something with better grids.

One other thing that I noticed this weekend and I discussed this with another TOCA regular online last night who was there yesterday but not today, that there did not seem to be that same buzz around the paddock as there was last year, it all seemed very flat. The person that I was discussing this with agree with me and said that they had spoken to some other people that felt the same.

[speedy king]

I didn't go today, and can honestly say i doubt i will go to any other than maybe Snetterton just as thats only about 8 miles away but considering they will now be charging me entry fees even though i'm not old enough to work, i may not go there either. Simple reason it's not worth it, the only thing that might make me go if the grids don't improve would be to see the supports. Today i opted to go see kart racing, thoroughly enjoyed that, got back and put ITV on for the Touring cars, i didn't know whether to laugh or cry when i saw the cars going round. Muller looked totally out of place now Thommo and Reid have gone, i can see him going WTCC next year, along with Plato who is already apparently threatening to go WTCC Seat, in which case, i wouldn't be surprised to see BTCC Seat team dissappeare.

I don't see us getting any more than 2 or 3 more cars, and lets not foget we may LOSE Collards MG, he openly said he does not have the money to race all year and could be gone within a few races. I actually felt quite bored after a bit watching it on TV other than Neal and Eaves, it just looked like a glammed up club event struggling for members. Bye bye ITV live TV deal....

[The Bear]

Collard has funds for only two more meetings and judging by peoples reaction to yesterday's grids then I cannot see sponsors falling over themselves to back BTCC this year. The Lexus clearly was not ready and I imagine Alan Gow must have begged them to turn up. As for other teams not being ready, there is no excuse. They knew when the season was going to start, they have had plenty of time. What if the fans didn't turn up for the first few meetings because they were not ready? The reverse grid for the top ten cars will need to be changed to the top six if they are only going to have eleven or twelve cars starting. If there is a major crash that damages several cars in the first race then we could have grids of six for the rest of the meeting.

[Super Tourer]

One of the most unfortunate things about this weekend was that new weight carried on the Seats deprived the series of one of it's talking points - the Plato/Muller rivalry.

TOCA need to look at those limits for S2000 - if the Seats are struggling to carry the weight than the Lexus will be heavily disadvantaged as well. Concern was expressed over the weight limits during the winter break and was one of the key factors in TD deciding not to buy ex ETCC factory BMW's and to build a new car themselves.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Super Tourer

One of the most unfortunate things about this weekend was that new weight carried on the Seats deprived the series of one of it's talking points - the Plato/Muller rivalry.

They are stuggling to know what is fair. It is a difficult task - it changes from circuit to circuit and even condition. I find it a difficult one, expecially as it is only really Seat that it effects. Are they doing a better job than the others and hence should be ahead - who can tell? Maybe they aren't trying and just hoping the weight will equalise them - who can tell?

However maybe you have the solution. Forget whether it is fair, just have a changing weight system that sees Plato and Muller line up along side each other at every race.

[Super Tourer]

I'm sure that thought is not lost on some people within the BTCC!

As you say deciding what is fair is tricky, but the Seat's certainly struggled. Perhaps the best barometer is to compare it to the MG, as that will be the 'least changed' front running car from last year?

[Adam43]

It is a surprise that they are being the MG, but is moving it ahead with less weight fair to the MG? You'd expect that Seat are doing a better job, but...

[Peter Mallett]

Why not just have them all running to a set weight limit? Or is that too simple?

[Adam43]

Well you have already lost the simplicity when you allow cars from two sets of regulations to compete against each other. Then they want ot make those two sets of regs equal. The trouble with that is that when the two sets produce the same lap time they do it in different ways (brakes, grip, power...) and your way to equalise them is a single way (weight). Then factor development into it.

At least changing weight limits during a weekend gives you an idea of the effect it has.

A difficult job where you shall always upset someone.

[Peter Mallett]

Yes that was really my point. A single set of regs, ooh now why not use the ETCC or WTCC regs then you could attract some teams from mainland europe.

Nah too simple.

[Adam43]

I see that, but then you might lose Vauxhall. Which I guess is the main reason why not.