Another late 'un for Donington [merged]

[Stack]

I received an email the other day from the BMMC Midland region beging for marshals for the AMOC meeting on the 25th and 26th June. I quote..

"Saturday 25th June will feature six races culminating in the Aston Martin GT4 Challenge of Great Britain. This three-hour race, starting at 16:50 hrs, will finish at around 19:50 hrs."

I checked the Silverstone round and there where only 13 starters.

It goes on....

"A further sixteen races are scheduled for Sunday 26th, thirteen of which will be televised and transmitted live to 39 countries! (wow, I bet they can't wait!!!) All televised races are rolling starts and will last for 10 minutes each."

I had a look at the timetable and the last race.....
Race 22 – David Brown Relay – – 18.20 – 18.50 (30 mins)

An hour dinner break is planned(!) for each day.

Personly I would like to thank AMOC for providing this timetable so much in advance that I can now plan to do something else!!!!

Its about time the clubs realise that cramming a meeting with umpteen races so they can gain more entry fees from competitors aint going to wash with marshals much longer-recent manning levels at Donington meetings point in this direction already.

What was really refreshing was receiving my passes and timetable for this weekends MSVR meeting at Cadwell and finding out that the last race finishes at 16.15 on Saturday (nice and early to stoke up the BBQ) and 18.07 on Sunday.

So come on clubs, if MSVR can do it so can you!!!!

[The Fat Clerk]

Must admit I laughed when I read the email, I'm going to Oulton for the CSCC meeting and reckon that I'll probably be home earlier ( I live @ Mallory).
Do you remember that line from a song 'When will they ever learn?'

[HairyDJ]

There are only 2 marshals' clubs that I'm aware of - all the others are racing clubs / circuits aka businesses!

As in other walks of life, some businesses are nicer to deal with (and gain "customer" loyalty) than others.

feet - vote with

[The Fat Clerk]

feet - vote with [/QUOTE]



Exactly Dave, hence a 200 mile round trip instead of a 50 mile one!

[KayBee]

Originally Posted by The Fat Clerk

Must admit I laughed when I read the email, I'm going to Oulton for the CSCC meeting and reckon that I'll probably be home earlier ( I live @ Mallory).
Do you remember that line from a song 'When will they ever learn?'

Twice in one season, you're getting to be almost a regular.

Are you going to Anglesey in August?

[The Fat Clerk]

Sadly no, I'm @ MIRA on the Saturday and Clerking the Masters @ Mallory on the Sunday. Busy boy!

[RCMADD]

oddly.. i have just volunteered for the sunday...

[chezza]

One of the issues is that circuit hire fees are so high that the clubs need to cram many races in to even stand a chance of making the meeting financially viable and so their hands are almost forced.

MSVR are probably one of the luckier ones, because they're MSV's racing arm I'd imagine they either don't have to pay circuit hire costs or get them at a lower rate and so don't need to cram in as many races to get their money back. (Please note that is my thoughts and I don't know if thats actually the case).

[Hepatic]

I gave up Donington events that were televised a long time ago. WSR looked like a cracking meeting until i got the timetable through a few years ago. 20 minutes scheduled for lunch for a near 12 hr day. I duly returned the tickets with letter of explanation and have not been back since. Not all events at Donington are like that thankfully, but once people get bitten like that its hard to tempt them back...

[Stephen Green]

Originally Posted by HairyDJ

There are only 2 marshals' clubs that I'm aware of - all the others are racing clubs / circuits aka businesses!

As in other walks of life, some businesses are nicer to deal with (and gain "customer" loyalty) than others.

feet - vote with

I thought there was only One marshals club?

[The Fat Clerk]

Now, now Mr Green

[M Greenslade]

What was really refreshing was receiving my passes and timetable for this weekends MSVR meeting at Cadwell and finding out that the last race finishes at 16.15 on Saturday (nice and early to stoke up the BBQ) and 18.07 on Sunday.

So come on clubs, if MSVR can do it so can you!!!!

Ably assisted by David Owen, John Watson and all at Cadwell that make their meetings some of the most slickly run in the UK...............

Bladders....

[Stone-kicker]

One of the issues is that circuit hire fees are so high that the clubs need to cram many races in to even stand a chance of making the meeting financially viable and so their hands are almost forced.

Alternatively, make your championships attractive enough to get full grids, same number of entry fees but needing less races needed.

[chezza]

That is a good point Stone-Kicker, but even that is becoming harder, we're lucky in that we have three series that have high/full grids, but to get that you have to keep the fees down (people at the moment are only looking at the bottom line when it comes to races) which means the margins become tighter and so your still needing to put lots of races on.

If you have popular series they're not going to want to pay over the odds to race at a circuit so you still need to put on lots of races to cover the costs.

Also with some circuits the costs are very high compared to the number of cars the MSA will allow on the grid, this puts the entry fees up and sadly usually lowers the numbers of cars that will turn out.

Its all a big nasty catch 22 situation.

[Stone-kicker]

So you run grids together.

I know it is sometimes not popular with the coordinators but but a grid of 28 cars has to be more viable than 2 grids of 14! Its more interesting for the spectators - bonus.

[flagwaver]

Several championships (races)are done on a buy in basis. That is the championship pay the organisers a set amount of money to run the race. The organisers are happy as they get a set fee regardless of entry numbers. But often the "buy in" race will stipulate "exclusive use"

I do agree small grids are not good for anybody. The problems are where is the cut off point for numbers and what do you merge series with

[NewYankee01]

i know ill get sick off it soon but isnt marshalling all about being on post and watching the action for as long as possible. thats what we're in this game for, isnt it?!

[Stone-kicker]

i know ill get sick off it soon but isnt marshalling all about being on post and watching the action for as long as possible. thats what we're in this game for, isnt it?!

I prefer quality not quantity myself.

[Apple]

Originally Posted by NewYankee01

i know ill get sick off it soon but isnt marshalling all about being on post and watching the action for as long as possible. thats what we're in this game for, isnt it?!

I'm with you mate
If you dont like it dont go

[Chigley]

Originally Posted by NewYankee01

i know ill get sick off it soon but isnt marshalling all about being on post and watching the action for as long as possible. thats what we're in this game for, isnt it?!

Not when after a long day you spend 40 minutes on post watching 4 cars out of an initial entry of 6 race.

[chezza]

Flag waver has a point regarding the buy in grids. Also you have to be careful when combining grids you aren't likely to put a grid of 2CV's with a grid of Mitsubishi Evo's for example (I'm not saying these have low grids I just wanted two different speeds)because of the speed difference and the danger that would entail. So you are left with two grids.

Also you would still want to use as much of the day as possible, so if you have two low grids you've combined, then you'll still put another race on to maximise income and also to use up the track time.

[Stack]

Originally Posted by Apple

If you dont like it dont go

Thats what i'm getting at - more are doing just that!

How long before a meeting is canceled due to lack of marshals?

[HairyDJ]

Originally Posted by Stack

How long before a meeting is cancelled due to lack of marshals?

Should be cancelled, or will actually get cancelled?

I suspect that if ever a meeting was so short of marshals that it should be cancelled, then the club would look at the massive cost in refunded entry fees / compensation(?) and the track hire bill. At that point it will still go ahead with whatever they've got - probably augmented by drivers / families with zero / negligible training. I doubt that any "normal" club could survive after such a financial hit.

Sadly, the headlines would probably be more along the lines of "poor turnout of marshals destroys meeting" rather than "club officials fail to arrange meeting properly"

I'd hate to be a CM for these clubs, as they must be getting shouted down by the competitor side of the business to allow this to keep happening!

[The Fat Clerk]

Over the years meetings have been cancelled in advance, or run over the shorter circuit (Cadwell comes to mind), because of lack of numbers. It's the MSA Steward who declares the circuit is not sufficently manned, and then the Secretary of the Meeting who trys to rustle up some more volunteers from the paddock, family & friends etc. This is nothing new, it's been happening for at least the past 10 years or so. to my knowledge.

[racerkeke]

Originally Posted by Stone-kicker

So you run grids together.

I know it is sometimes not popular with the coordinators but but a grid of 28 cars has to be more viable than 2 grids of 14!

The SCCA in the US is doing exactly this. It used to be that national level competitors ran in national races on specific days, and regional competitors had their own races and their own days. Because it's too expensive for many to run at the national level in the current economic climate, national grids were getting a lot smaller. Workers were voting with their feet and clubs didn't want to host national events, but if national events are necessary to have a national class champion, what to do?

Now SCCA uses the Rational tag to identify days when the competitors declare their group (national or regional) and the whole group runs together. Nationals get scored against nationals and regionals against regionals, but the whole group also is classed in order. Gives the national group some additional challenges and shows the regional guys the nationals aren't anything to be afraid of! And for us, it's a lot more fun.
keke