Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Baltic Touring Car Championship Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Saloon & Sportscar Racing > WTCC & European Touring Car Series


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 15 Jan 2022, 19:34 (Ref:4093890)   #16
crmalcolm
Veteran
 
crmalcolm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Nepal
Exactly where I need to be.
Posts: 9,290
crmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speed-King View Post
Compare that to how badly some teams were out in the wilderness with their self-built cars in the BTC-T and S2000 era. Back then, you basically needed a crack outfit like 888, RLM or Dynamics to come up with a properly competitive car, whereas now even small teams like Cicely can "develop" a car on their own.
Yes - and I think it is a lot better now.

Since the introduction of NGTC, the following teams have prepared a car that took the Drivers' title:

BMR, WSR, Dynamics and Eurotech.

The following teams have prepared a car that took the Teams' title:

BMR, WSR and Dynamics.

When you consider that the Eurotech car was designed, and supported by Dynamics, it shows that the best teams will still take the titles.
In the independents' though, title-winning cars have also come from:

Speedworks, AmD and Motorbase.

So to that end - NGTC allows the 'small' teams to have success and compete at the sharp end of the grid. Isn't that a lot better than the mid-'90s where manufacturers ruled the show and independent, smaller teams were destined to never taste success?
crmalcolm is offline  
__________________
"There’s no sense in doing a lot of barking if you don’t really have anything to say."
Quote
Old 15 Jan 2022, 21:20 (Ref:4093903)   #17
Sodemo
Veteran
 
Sodemo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
United Kingdom
Solihull, West Mids, UK
Posts: 10,454
Sodemo should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSodemo should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSodemo should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSodemo should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speed-King View Post
AIUI, the common subframes are mostly a cost-saving measure. Apparently, designing a good race suspension for a production-based race car is expensive if you are allowed to move the suspension pick-up points and complicated if you aren't. With the common subframes, all of that is not needed anymore and it's probably what allows relatively small teams to develop competitive cars on their own.

Compare that to how badly some teams were out in the wilderness with their self-built cars in the BTC-T and S2000 era. Back then, you basically needed a crack outfit like 888, RLM or Dynamics to come up with a properly competitive car, whereas now even small teams like Cicely can "develop" a car on their own.
I understand the reasoning and the logic behind that premise, but how is it then with TCR, small teams can design and develop suspension layouts without using a spec subframe? To my knowledge, TCR doesn’t use them?
Sodemo is offline  
Quote
Old 15 Jan 2022, 21:48 (Ref:4093907)   #18
crmalcolm
Veteran
 
crmalcolm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Nepal
Exactly where I need to be.
Posts: 9,290
crmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sodemo View Post
I understand the reasoning and the logic behind that premise, but how is it then with TCR, small teams can design and develop suspension layouts without using a spec subframe? To my knowledge, TCR doesn’t use them?
I think, because TCR cars are designed and built in the first instance by the manufacturer or an affiliated associate and then sold to customers, alongside the BoP used in TCR.
crmalcolm is offline  
Quote
Old 16 Jan 2022, 09:42 (Ref:4093972)   #19
Speed-King
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location:
Wuerzburg,Germany
Posts: 7,267
Speed-King has a real shot at the podium!Speed-King has a real shot at the podium!Speed-King has a real shot at the podium!Speed-King has a real shot at the podium!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sodemo View Post
I understand the reasoning and the logic behind that premise, but how is it then with TCR, small teams can design and develop suspension layouts without using a spec subframe? To my knowledge, TCR doesn’t use them?
Except for the Alfa, there are no (mainstream) TCR-cars left that are not manufacturer-developed or at least funded. All other privateer-builds (Renault, KIA, Subaru) have pretty much fallen by the wayside. And I'd argue that Romeo Ferraris (the guys behind the Alfa) are actually a quite capable team; they also developed their own Mercedeses for the old Italian Superstars series.
Speed-King is offline  
__________________
Ceterum censeo GTE-Am esse delendam.
Quote
Old 17 Jan 2022, 23:51 (Ref:4094186)   #20
auroan
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 631
auroan should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Comparing a TCR car to NGTC is like comparing a guy Martin custom race bike to a BMW S1000R. They both do the same thing.... but achieve it in very different ways.

I don't think it's been mentioned.....but the other major aim of NGTC was to remove any reliance on OEM car manufacturers and their partners. This was something that has killed any number of technical regs in the past when manufacturers pulled out.
auroan is offline  
Quote
Old 18 Jan 2022, 12:29 (Ref:4094260)   #21
porsche962fan
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,809
porsche962fan should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by auroan View Post

I don't think it's been mentioned.....but the other major aim of NGTC was to remove any reliance on OEM car manufacturers and their partners. This was something that has killed any number of technical regs in the past when manufacturers pulled out.
ironically this happened in reverse in British GT , in the 90s, and early 00s there were lots of self made GT cars in the series often quite succesful and then it started to become just customers of big manufacturers like it is today
porsche962fan is offline  
Quote
Old 18 Jan 2022, 12:41 (Ref:4094261)   #22
crmalcolm
Veteran
 
crmalcolm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Nepal
Exactly where I need to be.
Posts: 9,290
crmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by auroan View Post
I don't think it's been mentioned.....but the other major aim of NGTC was to remove any reliance on OEM car manufacturers and their partners. This was something that has killed any number of technical regs in the past when manufacturers pulled out.
I don't think the organisers wanted to explicitly say they were removing the reliance on manufacturers (although it is a good thing to do so), and so it was veiled in the line:

'Reduce reliance on WTCC/S2000 equipment, due to increasing costs/complexity and concerns as to its future sustainability/direction'
crmalcolm is offline  
__________________
"There’s no sense in doing a lot of barking if you don’t really have anything to say."
Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
BMW NGTC ?? Gary89 WTCC & European Touring Car Series 14 6 Apr 2012 11:11
STCC NGTC Rules davidjones WTCC & European Touring Car Series 204 5 Aug 2011 18:03
Engine performance - S2000 / NGTC / 1.6 turbo FIA Sodemo WTCC & European Touring Car Series 4 28 Mar 2011 17:16
[BTCC] NGTC details released gregc WTCC & European Touring Car Series 168 8 Nov 2010 20:14
[BTCC] NGTC: Which cars do you wanna see? FIRE WTCC & European Touring Car Series 188 13 Apr 2010 17:46


All times are GMT. The time now is 14:21.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.