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Old 21 Jan 2022, 17:11 (Ref:4094767)   #2341
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Originally Posted by Mike Harte View Post
And didn't Ralf Schumacher win at least one race, or at least do pretty well in at least one race!
him and Trulli did a really good job holding everyone up in Japan 2005!
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Old 21 Jan 2022, 17:17 (Ref:4094772)   #2342
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I can't find if any thread has mentioned Zak Brown's comments about F1.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/m...wance/7360683/

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Originally Posted by Zak Brown
The current governance structure of the sport enables a situation where some teams, to protect their own competitive advantage, are effectively holding the sport hostage from what's best for the fans and therefore the sport at large.

The regulations, as they stand today, are heavily biased towards B teams/customer teams which is not in line with F1's principle of a group of genuine constructors competing with one another on even terms.

There are times when some smaller teams vote against their own interests to satisfy the agenda of their A team.

Those are strong words against the major teams.
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Old 21 Jan 2022, 17:21 (Ref:4094773)   #2343
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but surely that is an indictment of the smaller teams no?

they are not necessarily there to advance up the grid...which begs the question, why do we need more of them?
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Old 21 Jan 2022, 17:27 (Ref:4094775)   #2344
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man did they suck!

As a constructor, Toyota finished third 8 times. The first time in 2006 and the last in 2009.

As an engine supplier, they finished third 3 times. The first time in 2005 with Jordan and the last in 2009 with Williams.
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Old 21 Jan 2022, 17:33 (Ref:4094777)   #2345
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I feel Toyota pulled out too early, they had shown they could produce a winning car in 09, but missed out on the winning. It took them a while, but they had it in them, they just didn't always make the most of their opportunities

I wouldn't mind seeing them back as an engine supplier, it would probably have been better than them doing it all themselves and they probably also struggled supplying others at the same time. Chances missed, but there you go
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Old 22 Jan 2022, 05:03 (Ref:4094838)   #2346
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I feel Toyota pulled out too early, they had shown they could produce a winning car in 09, but missed out on the winning. It took them a while, but they had it in them, they just didn't always make the most of their opportunities

I wouldn't mind seeing them back as an engine supplier, it would probably have been better than them doing it all themselves and they probably also struggled supplying others at the same time. Chances missed, but there you go
Isn't it more satisfying to race at Le Mans and win? Even a B- Formula One team, is an A to A+ Le Mans prototype team. Such are the different levels of the competitions.
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Old 22 Jan 2022, 09:58 (Ref:4094842)   #2347
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Originally Posted by S griffin View Post
I feel Toyota pulled out too early, they had shown they could produce a winning car in 09, but missed out on the winning. It took them a while, but they had it in them, they just didn't always make the most of their opportunities

I wouldn't mind seeing them back as an engine supplier, it would probably have been better than them doing it all themselves and they probably also struggled supplying others at the same time. Chances missed, but there you go
I don't know how everybody else here feels, but I think that Toyota's driver selection was not what it should have been to either develop the car or achieve the race results they were looking for.
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Old 22 Jan 2022, 19:20 (Ref:4094898)   #2348
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I don't know how everybody else here feels, but I think that Toyota's driver selection was not what it should have been to either develop the car or achieve the race results they were looking for.
Even when Raikkonen was offered a Toyota contract he refused to go there IIRC, so it's not like Toyota was attractive enough for drivers like Alonso or Hamilton anyway.

FWIW, Toyota consultant and F1 design legend Frank Dernie wanted Toyota to pursue an outwash front wing for 2009 based on his experience but it didn't get added to the wind tunnel program until late in the process, and therefore didn't even up being anywhere near as sophisticated or highly-developed as the Brawn's outwash front wing.

So even though the 2009 Toyota had both the "must have" outwash front and double deck diffuser, they were not developed as far as the Brawn was. Still the 2009 Toyota was an OK car with some poles and podiums IIRC.

The other decent car Toyota built was the 2005 car under Gascoyne, but it seems like Gascoyne clashed with the "Toyota way" and then left Toyota Motorsport GmbH. Where teams like Red Bull or Mercedes GP are all about getting go-fast parts on the car as quickly as possible no matter what (i.e., a singular objective of doing whatever it takes to make the car faster, that 'garagiste' spirit of Cooper, Brabham, McLaren, Lotus and Williams but scaled up), Toyota followed protocol and process more akin to production car manufacturing apparently.

It is rather ironic that the only Formula One team based in Germany was Toyota and not BMW or Mercedes!

Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 22 Jan 2022 at 19:33.
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Old 23 Jan 2022, 15:34 (Ref:4095005)   #2349
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Toyota’s other problem was they were too conservative with race strategy

During the rain shortened Malaysian GP in 2009, Jarno Trulli asked for inters as the rain started to fall, but as he was second, they decided to play it safe and put him on wets. Meanwhile his team mate Glock, who was in the pack, went on inters. The result was Glock got as high as 2nd, which became 3rd on countback, while Trulli dropped to fourth, as his wet tyres wore out too quickly, almost half a minute behind the winner and was left wondering what could have been

In fact one of the few times Toyota rolled the dice, it almost decided the 2008 title!
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Old 23 Jan 2022, 15:57 (Ref:4095007)   #2350
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Inspired by comments in the P45 thread - I think the title of this thread has been answered.

How to 'fix' F1? - Get Vince McMahon in charge!





















































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Old 23 Jan 2022, 16:27 (Ref:4095009)   #2351
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I think we don’t need Vince to ‘fix’ F1! Just get a race director who ignores his own rules, oh wait that’s already happened….
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Old 23 Jan 2022, 21:49 (Ref:4095047)   #2352
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There were some great articles recently about the Toyota F1 effort. Basically in a nutshell, they pointed towards their corporate culture as one of the reasons why they failed.
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Old 25 Jan 2022, 00:24 (Ref:4095222)   #2353
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There were some great articles recently about the Toyota F1 effort. Basically in a nutshell, they pointed towards their corporate culture as one of the reasons why they failed.
Pity the did not have Ford v Ferrari as a reference, the problems with shown with the Ford culture may have helped them.
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