Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Single Seater Racing > Formula One


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old Yesterday, 09:45 (Ref:4095367)   #256
wnut
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,999
wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!
Quote:
Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks View Post
Masi is an excellent race director who should remain. To do otherwise would be most absurd!



Whether a racing driver chooses to continue racing has zero relation to who the race director is. The alternative notion is just ridiculous.

Hamilton is on the entry list, if not then Mercedes would likely arrange a deal for Ocon which would allow the promising Piastri to make his Grand Prix debut.
Agreed.
wnut is offline  
Quote
Old Yesterday, 11:00 (Ref:4095383)   #257
Aysedasi
Tickets!
20KPINAL
 
Aysedasi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
England
Lymington, New Forest, England
Posts: 36,622
Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Not by me....
Aysedasi is offline  
__________________
Roll on 2022..... 178
Quote
Old Yesterday, 12:06 (Ref:4095388)   #258
wnut
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,999
wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldtony View Post
A list of the teams and drivers who feel that way, and their stated reasons, might be instructive and give rise to thoughts about their motivation.
Great idea Tony, also give them an insight into which rules require sorting out.
wnut is offline  
Quote
Old Yesterday, 12:39 (Ref:4095389)   #259
ascarracinguk
Veteran
 
ascarracinguk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location:
Infront of my computer
Posts: 3,755
ascarracinguk has a real shot at the championship!ascarracinguk has a real shot at the championship!ascarracinguk has a real shot at the championship!ascarracinguk has a real shot at the championship!ascarracinguk has a real shot at the championship!ascarracinguk has a real shot at the championship!
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnut View Post
Great idea Tony, also give them an insight into which rules require sorting out.
Im not sure many rules need sorting, more importantly a consistent application of rules is the important thing here, which is what has lead to the most animosity from all sides this las couple of years

- End of pitlane line, Hamilton penalised in russia, Charles not in Spa, Masi said race directors notes were clear, but infact they werent because he had to clarify and then reinforce for the next GP - inconsistancy

- Track limits changing from each circuit and even several times during the weekend - inconsistancy

- Consistent application of crowding a driver off the track, has been all over the place with the 'let them race' rubbish - inconsistancy

- Consistent application of penalties, which has been all over the place (or at least percieved to be this year) - inconsistancy

- Tyre changed under red flag

- Red flags in the first place...way too many, not needed, a safety car could have easily been used at several times in the last couple of years - inconsistancy, percieved just to be used to spice up the show

- Impliment Indycar style closed pit lanes so you can only stop once the train is together or something like that, to remove any unfair advantage of cars behind, or no pitting under safety car at all.

- More accountability of the race directors and stewards decision. Adopt a DOPS style briefing in the week after the race where a video is put online, detailing the stewards decision, their reasoning and how it differs to other incidents to help fans and teams work out how they have come to that decision. It will remove animosity and the perception of bias....and if there is bias, then there is nowhere to hide.


Above all transparency and consistency are key here, it will defuse the majority of animosity between teams, drivers and fans who feel like theyve been hard done by. Thats where i think Masi has mostly gone wrong over the last few years. Whiting gave considered justification and the drivers, teams and fans trusted his judgment. Masi has done completely the opposite through his actions.

Maybe thats not completely Masis fault, some can be levelled at F1 and the FIA for either not supporting him or giving us more information than needed like team radio which just ramps up tensions etc.
ascarracinguk is offline  
Quote
Old Yesterday, 20:25 (Ref:4095438)   #260
Tourer
Veteran
 
Tourer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Australia
Sideways
Posts: 3,582
Tourer has a real shot at the championship!Tourer has a real shot at the championship!Tourer has a real shot at the championship!Tourer has a real shot at the championship!Tourer has a real shot at the championship!
Quote:
Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks View Post
Masi is an excellent race director who should remain. To do otherwise would be most absurd!
Agree with you completely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wnut View Post
Agreed.
Yep

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aysedasi View Post
Not by me....
Agreement from me with V8 Fireworks and wnut.
Tourer is offline  
__________________
“We’re far from having too much horsepower…[m]y definition of too much horsepower is when all four wheels are spinning in every gear.” ― Mark Donohue
Quote
Old Yesterday, 21:07 (Ref:4095443)   #261
BTCC frog
Veteran
 
BTCC frog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Posts: 640
BTCC frog should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridBTCC frog should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridBTCC frog should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
I don't think Masi is an excellent race director. He made a few questionable decisions in 2021 and then what happened in Abu Dhabi was just shocking. I don't think it is fair for me to call for him to be fired considering we don't know all the information but I think it is right that it is being investigated. I don't like that he seems to prioritise entertainment too much over sporting integrity, but I suspect those are his instructions from Liberty so wouldn't necessarily blame him for that.

The news that would make me most happy going into the new season would be the decision to scrap this bizarre agreement that the race should always finish under green flags if at all possible. Or at the very least, that we should have rolling starts after red flags instead of standing starts.
BTCC frog is offline  
__________________
In another life, we could have been brothers. Running a small, quirky taverna in Sicily. Maybe we would have married the local twins instead of wasting each other's time here in this dump. But it was not to be.
Quote
Old Yesterday, 21:19 (Ref:4095444)   #262
Tourer
Veteran
 
Tourer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Australia
Sideways
Posts: 3,582
Tourer has a real shot at the championship!Tourer has a real shot at the championship!Tourer has a real shot at the championship!Tourer has a real shot at the championship!Tourer has a real shot at the championship!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascarracinguk View Post
Im not sure many rules need sorting, more importantly a consistent application of rules is the important thing here, which is what has lead to the most animosity from all sides this las couple of years
Agree that consistency (as much as possible in any case) is what any sporting judiciary needs but there's an element of needing to be realistic on expectations too - because in reality, very few situations are actually the same as each other, particularly if we're talking about on-track, driver standard type situations. We also need to be aware that often teams or drivers will claim "inconsistency" to suit their own positions - quote from a recent article in Autosport rings true here:
Quote:
Like all sports, motorsport is a contest where believing exactly what is uttered by the competitors is most unwise, given the advantages to be gained by teams and drivers concealing weaknesses or hiding specific gains.
You've raised a number of good points, so I'll give my thoughts on each one:

Quote:
- End of pitlane line, Hamilton penalised in russia, Charles not in Spa, Masi said race directors notes were clear, but infact they werent because he had to clarify and then reinforce for the next GP - inconsistancy
Disagree with you on this one. The RD notes WERE clear, which is why MB was penalised in Russia (Stewards' decision to penalise, not RD by the way) as if the notes weren't clear, the Stewards would not have been able to apply the penalty. Different race, different circuit, different RD notes for Spa - so no infringement by Ferrari. The reinforcement was clearly to remind those not concentrating on how the RD notes work and how they DO vary at times from event to event, due to differences from circuit to circuit. Consistent methodology & given that only one team got it wrong across all the exits of all the pit lanes across all the events this year (& apologised to their driver) the process is clearly understood by the teams generally.

Quote:
- Track limits changing from each circuit and even several times during the weekend - inconsistancy
Personally I really don't like the way track limits are dealt with in some locations only but of course they are different from circuit to circuit, as no two circuits are the same and of course at times they can be adjusted during the course of a race weekend if drivers can be seen to be taking the mick - with attendant potential safety implications that absolutely can't be ignored. Consistent approach but inconsistencies from circuit to circuit because the circuits themselves are inconsistent (thankfully). Bear in mind too that the Stewards may well be the ones making the calls on changing track limit tolerances during a race weekend - as they have the power to.

Quote:
- Consistent application of crowding a driver off the track, has been all over the place with the 'let them race' rubbish - inconsistancy
The "let them race rubbish" was specifically what the teams (and fans) asked for but agree that it has appeared to be inconsistent at times - notwithstanding that no two situations are truly identical. Bear in mind though, that the decisions on these matters rest with the Stewards, not the RD.

Quote:
- Consistent application of penalties, which has been all over the place (or at least percieved to be this year) - inconsistancy
Not anything to do with RD - totally, 100% Stewards' decisions.

Quote:
- Tyre changed under red flag
Allowed under FIA codes, not just in F1 - personally I don't like it unless tyres are damaged but it IS part of the red flag process and shows that the RD is doing exactly what he should be doing in allowing it.

Quote:
- Red flags in the first place...way too many, not needed, a safety car could have easily been used at several times in the last couple of years - inconsistancy, percieved just to be used to spice up the show
Throwing the red flag IS most definitely an RD call and is very much a judgement call - sometimes a fine line between what is suitable for SC and where a red flag is more appropriate - personally I've seen the reasoning behind each red flag call over the last few years and have no issue with any of them. It is impossible to be truly consistent in approach on red flags as every incident is different, sometimes only subtle differences but for sure they ARE different.

Quote:
- Impliment Indycar style closed pit lanes so you can only stop once the train is together or something like that, to remove any unfair advantage of cars behind, or no pitting under safety car at all.
There are many pros & cons to this approach, I'd be OK with it up to a point but on balance I'm not convinced that it would be any better across a racing season. Not the RD's decision on whether or not this rule is brought in though.

Quote:
- More accountability of the race directors and stewards decision. Adopt a DOPS style briefing in the week after the race where a video is put online, detailing the stewards decision, their reasoning and how it differs to other incidents to help fans and teams work out how they have come to that decision. It will remove animosity and the perception of bias....and if there is bias, then there is nowhere to hide.
Never heard of DOPS, no idea what that is but understand what you mean - this type of approach would be good in my view but is not an RD call - would need to be a decision made higher up within the FIA.

Quote:
Above all transparency and consistency are key here, it will defuse the majority of animosity between teams, drivers and fans who feel like theyve been hard done by. Thats where i think Masi has mostly gone wrong over the last few years. Whiting gave considered justification and the drivers, teams and fans trusted his judgment. Masi has done completely the opposite through his actions.
Agree with your first sentence, not your second. The approach taken by both Charlie and Michael is very, very similar and in both cases, very little of it is seen or heard by the public. I clearly recall the point about half way through the year when the Sky crew made the point that the FIA had dropped the restriction on interviewing the RD - prior to that, the public didn't get the insight (again, not the RD's call - higher up in the FIA). When the RD did interviews, he was calm, clear and on point, just the way Charlie would be.

Quote:
Maybe thats not completely Masis fault, some can be levelled at F1 and the FIA for either not supporting him or giving us more information than needed like team radio which just ramps up tensions etc.
The only item on your list that can be laid solely at the RD's door is making the call on whether or not to throw the red flag. The rest of the items that you list are either Stewards' decisions, FIA hierarchy decisions or decisions that at most only partially involve the RD.

Last edited by Tourer; Yesterday at 21:27.
Tourer is offline  
__________________
“We’re far from having too much horsepower…[m]y definition of too much horsepower is when all four wheels are spinning in every gear.” ― Mark Donohue
Quote
Old Yesterday, 23:27 (Ref:4095451)   #263
Alan52
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Australia
Glenmore Park
Posts: 1,251
Alan52 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridAlan52 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
The point that most of the things being listed as inconsistencies are stewards calls and a lot of the others are just following the existing rules show that pinning all this stuff on Masi is just looking for a convenient scapegoat.
Also most of the things people are complaining about are in the realm of Hamilton v Verstappen.The number of incidents involving other drivers is no different to any other previous year including those pre Masi.The intensity of that battle unmatched since Senna v Prost put immense pressure on Masi and stewards.
Finally wondering how much Toto was one of those principals pushing for the “let them race” green flag finishes at the start of the year.His volcanic tantrum at Masi’s “it’s a motor race ,let them race” has me wondering if that was a line Toto used back at the start of the year and he didn’t like it being thrown back at him.
Alan52 is offline  
Quote
Old Today, 02:54 (Ref:4095459)   #264
bathurst77
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Australia
NSW
Posts: 787
bathurst77 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridbathurst77 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks View Post
Hamilton is on the entry list, if not then Mercedes would likely arrange a deal for Ocon which would allow the promising Piastri to make his Grand Prix debut.

---------------------------------

im 99.9% sure Lewis will be on the grid come round one (being overseen by a new race director), but out of interest if not, why Occon?
bathurst77 is offline  
__________________
Bathurst 1977, best day of my childhood
Worst thing ever to happen to Ford Aust Motorsport.
Quote
Old Today, 03:11 (Ref:4095462)   #265
Alan52
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Australia
Glenmore Park
Posts: 1,251
Alan52 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridAlan52 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by bathurst77 View Post
Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks View Post
Hamilton is on the entry list, if not then Mercedes would likely arrange a deal for Ocon which would allow the promising Piastri to make his Grand Prix debut.

---------------------------------

im 99.9% sure Lewis will be on the grid come round one (being overseen by a new race director), but out of interest if not, why Occon?
Wishful Australian thinking I think.Ocon is contracted to Renault for 2 more years.How would it possibly in their interest to let him go?
Mercedes would have to look around teams they supply engines to if they are looking to make a deal.Like you I’m 99% sure Hamilton will be on the grid.
I’m guessing Renault’s plan for Piastri was to replace a retiring Alonso at the end of 2022.Alonso’s spectacular form in the second half of last season has thrown a spinner into those plans.
Alan52 is offline  
Quote
Old Today, 07:10 (Ref:4095473)   #266
ascarracinguk
Veteran
 
ascarracinguk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location:
Infront of my computer
Posts: 3,755
ascarracinguk has a real shot at the championship!ascarracinguk has a real shot at the championship!ascarracinguk has a real shot at the championship!ascarracinguk has a real shot at the championship!ascarracinguk has a real shot at the championship!ascarracinguk has a real shot at the championship!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan52 View Post
The point that most of the things being listed as inconsistencies are stewards calls and a lot of the others are just following the existing rules show that pinning all this stuff on Masi is just looking for a convenient scapegoat.
Also most of the things people are complaining about are in the realm of Hamilton v Verstappen.The number of incidents involving other drivers is no different to any other previous year including those pre Masi.The intensity of that battle unmatched since Senna v Prost put immense pressure on Masi and stewards.
Finally wondering how much Toto was one of those principals pushing for the “let them race” green flag finishes at the start of the year.His volcanic tantrum at Masi’s “it’s a motor race ,let them race” has me wondering if that was a line Toto used back at the start of the year and he didn’t like it being thrown back at him.
I specifically didn’t mention max v Lewis as not to be drawn down that route, those inconsistencies have applied to most this last couple of years.

Volcanic tantrum? Being thrown back at him? Firstly I don’t see that as the case, but if you’re correct then it’s no way for a race director to act, and more reason for him to be replaced.
ascarracinguk is offline  
Quote
Old Today, 08:45 (Ref:4095480)   #267
S griffin
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 15,174
S griffin has a real shot at the championship!S griffin has a real shot at the championship!S griffin has a real shot at the championship!S griffin has a real shot at the championship!S griffin has a real shot at the championship!S griffin has a real shot at the championship!
The problem with Masi is too often last season he seemed to be influenced by certain team bosses. He needs a bigger backbone and make sure teams know where they stand with him. Maybe he also needs a more experienced race director alongside him to help him
S griffin is offline  
__________________
He who dares wins!
He who hesitates is lost!
Quote
Old Today, 09:39 (Ref:4095491)   #268
E.B
Veteran
 
E.B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
United Kingdom
About 7kms East of Albert Park Melbourne
Posts: 4,553
E.B is going for a new world record!E.B is going for a new world record!E.B is going for a new world record!E.B is going for a new world record!E.B is going for a new world record!E.B is going for a new world record!E.B is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by S griffin View Post
The problem with Masi is too often last season he seemed to be influenced by certain team bosses. He needs a bigger backbone and make sure teams know where they stand with him. Maybe he also needs a more experienced race director alongside him to help him
I thought they had already said there will be no Pit boss > RD communication permitted this year.
E.B is online now  
Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
get ready for spain DancingMachine Formula One 6 22 Apr 2001 10:44
Is Kimi Raikkonen ready for F1? Speed Demon Formula One 27 7 Mar 2001 18:11
Is Jos Verstappen ready to win?? Geva racing Formula One 27 22 Dec 2000 20:46
eddie ready botsquad Formula One 3 25 Jul 2000 19:18


All times are GMT. The time now is 13:58.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.