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Old 27 Jan 2022, 12:12 (Ref:4095519)   #16
Casper
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Casper should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridCasper should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
They should get rid of the stupid locker diff, we were using those (home made) in the 1960's and it is an archaic idea to say the least. Get rid of that and the front ends would be a lot different and cheaper.
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Old 27 Jan 2022, 21:34 (Ref:4095590)   #17
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Originally Posted by Casper View Post
They should get rid of the stupid locker diff, we were using those (home made) in the 1960's and it is an archaic idea to say the least. Get rid of that and the front ends would be a lot different and cheaper.
Hehehe I guess you mean the 'CIG' locker!
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Old 28 Jan 2022, 00:33 (Ref:4095608)   #18
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Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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Originally Posted by chavez View Post
I can't believe they are planning on using a steering wheel. So 1898....
1898 would have used a tiller.
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Old 28 Jan 2022, 02:07 (Ref:4095620)   #19
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chavez should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchavez should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchavez should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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Originally Posted by Mixer View Post
1898 would have used a tiller.
I thought so too, but apparently the first steering wheel appeared in that year.
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Old 28 Jan 2022, 02:57 (Ref:4095625)   #20
V8 Fireworks
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Originally Posted by Umai Naa View Post
H-pattern, paddles, sequential... they all get the job done.
Why don't you care? The nostalgia of the H-pattern is a lot of fun... particularly combined with pedal cam.

Amateur in homebrew NSX w/ pedal cam: https://youtu.be/2Hm4LvnnnBc?t=125
Going much slower than someone in a late model paddle shift Carrera Cup car? Yes. Having more fun? Quite possibly.

Mr. Seton in Sierra: https://youtu.be/Lzcs-SIP-pk?t=8

Mr. Skaife in Commodore: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfAp7UjM4-k

Mr. McRae in Impreza: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lnOX85clr4

Not the fastest way, but lots of fun!

However I'm concerned that the XTrac is fundamentally a sequential mechanism and doesn't have the option of a H-pattern shifter in any case.

Notably, the World Rally Championship has abandoned paddles and mandated manual shifting of the sequential -- so it would be logical for the ATCC to retain this approach of manual shifting. If anything, the busy hand work of rally driving indicates paddles, yet the regulator has chosen to take them away, a big call on the FIA's part!

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Originally Posted by GTRMagic View Post
Is it still an H pattern gearbox if there are effectively 7 gears, 6 forward and one reverse?
Yes, of course. Even with 8 gears: 7 forward and 1 reverse, it's still a H-pattern.

Porsche 911


Chevrolet Corvette


There would be the potential for the ATCC to go to more modern 7 speeds or 8 speeds AND go to a retro h-pattern at the same time (a delightful blend of contemporaryish and nostaglia, OK not *THAT* contemporary when a real automatic Mustang has 10 speeds). Perhaps Holinger could be commissioned to develop a new 7 or 8 speed h-pattern version of their transaxle?

Why was the Holinger rejected from ATCC tenders for so-called "COTF" in the first place, anyhow? Unwilling to tender? [Previous Holinger transmission noted for insufficient quality so participants were unwilling to continue with the transmission marque!? (Surely not!?)]

The 6-speed sequential:


I wonder why two pieces of the case are machined and the other two pieces are cast?

Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 28 Jan 2022 at 03:20.
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Old 28 Jan 2022, 03:29 (Ref:4095626)   #21
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Originally Posted by crmalcolm View Post
All of those suggesting that the technology adopted should be one that requires H-pattern shift and throttle synch are advocating for 1891 technology as the future of Gen 3?
As below, the ATCC is a nostalgia category. Where H-patterns would be odd for a technologically advanced category like Formula One or Super GT with their ultra-high thermal efficiency engines and the like, they seem rather fitting for the ATCC.

Heck, increasingly have an internal combustion engine at all (even it is efficient and mated to a hybrid system) is considered anachronistic, so why not go all in on the retro in the ATCC?

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Originally Posted by chavez View Post
I can't believe they are planning on using a steering wheel. So 1898....
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Originally Posted by crmalcolm View Post
My issue with this view - I don't see how a H-pattern gearbox makes a 'proper race'. The logical conclusion of this is that anything that is not using a H-pattern is by default not a proper race.
I guess the point is that the ATCC races port-injected naturally aspirated V8s. I.e., the ATCC is a nostalgia category ^, it's not pushing the cutting edge unlike SuperGT or F1.

Instead the ATCC races crude big ol' gas guzzling V8s with dismal thermal efficiency. I.e., it's about nostalgia not contemporary ultra-high thermal efficiency technology as in other categories.

So a nostalgia gearbox of a H-pattern manual would be the most appropriate choice for a nostalgia category.

^ Before someone says that turbos are old tech. There is a lot more to the SuperGT or F1 engines than that. The turbulent jet fuel injection allows for ultra-lean AFR (17+:1) which would normally have an engine exploding. They really push the limits to find maximum thermal efficiency.

I think SuperGT and DTM didn't originally introduce hybrids with the high thermal-efficiency four cylinder engines, but they may choose to introduce them later. They do have a control turbo to reduce costs as they are not completely crazy, however the technology within the cylinders is VERY similar to Formula One AFAIK.

Honda:


Toyota:


Meanwhile Supercars are racing a glorified version of these! There's nothing wrong with that, so why not go all-in on the nostalgia?

Honest Windsor:


Fancy Windsor:


The engines for 2023 are a little more modern, but not by much! While the Ford is at least 4-valve and DOHC, it doesn't have the nice gear-driven cams of the actual racing engines of Toyota and Honda above, or it's Cosworth DFV cousin.

LS3:


So given it's all about nostalgia, why not opt for nostaglic H-patterns? The H-patterns could be 'modernised' as 7-speed or 8-speed forward gear upgrade over the XTrac for a blend of retro and modern. It would be entertaining to see a driver work a 7 or 8 speed h-pattern around a lap. WRC drivers used to have to work the (admittedly 6-speed) H-pattern a LOT to keep up with the short gear ratios, so it would be much like that I imagine. Most amusing!

Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 28 Jan 2022 at 03:58.
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Old 28 Jan 2022, 06:13 (Ref:4095633)   #22
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Just Do It! should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridJust Do It! should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridJust Do It! should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Originally Posted by Kingair View Post
The good old nuns at our Catholic Primary School had a HQ Belmont with three on the tree, they managed ok.
So surely the pampered bus driver’s in Supercar land can handle a gearbox and a clutch.

Save the gearbox!
Hopefully the HQ was reliable - you'd have been safe with the nuns too
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Old 28 Jan 2022, 10:57 (Ref:4095660)   #23
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Casper should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridCasper should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Originally Posted by E.B View Post
Hehehe I guess you mean the 'CIG' locker!
Yep, did a few of those. I doubt many people understand the knock on effect that dumb diff has on the front end and how much it adds to the complexity of it.
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Old 6 Feb 2022, 03:14 (Ref:4097532)   #24
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Sanity prevails… they’re keeping the current gear shift.
Still hoped for non-sequential shifting but hey, at least it’s not paddles.
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Old 6 Feb 2022, 21:35 (Ref:4097601)   #25
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And… it runs as a sequential shift.. so arguably a double H is the basis.. yet it’s still push-pull to go up-down the box..

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Old 30 Mar 2022, 05:35 (Ref:4104855)   #26
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Will Mr Percat ask to have the paddle shifters taken out of his B6hr Audi next month...
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Old 1 Apr 2022, 00:54 (Ref:4105049)   #27
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Will Mr Percat ask to have the paddle shifters taken out of his B6hr Audi next month...
Agreed

Very hypocritical, especially for someone who described GT racing as very very boring….
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Old 1 Apr 2022, 09:45 (Ref:4105067)   #28
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bludvl_x19 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridbludvl_x19 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridbludvl_x19 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridbludvl_x19 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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Will Mr Percat ask to have the paddle shifters taken out of his B6hr Audi next month...
As long as he doesn't ask for the shifter in the 12hr Audi to be changed.
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Old 2 Apr 2022, 05:27 (Ref:4105129)   #29
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Casper should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridCasper should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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And… it runs as a sequential shift.. so arguably a double H is the basis.. yet it’s still push-pull to go up-down the box..

We were fitting straight line shifters to FJ Holdens in the 1960's because no one wanted a H pattern floor shift and now some people want to go back to that? Seriously?
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Old 2 Apr 2022, 07:41 (Ref:4105130)   #30
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Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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Originally Posted by Casper View Post
We were fitting straight line shifters to FJ Holdens in the 1960's because no one wanted a H pattern floor shift and now some people want to go back to that? Seriously?
Bring back 4 wheel drums too

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