[Driver] Schumacher used driving aids - Verstappen

[luke g28]

To be honest I think that the championship is almost always won by the team that get away with "cheating" the most. My (perhaps cynical) view is that all the top / competitive teams are bending / exploiting the rules and the winning team is the one that gets the furthest without being told off.

Once everybody finds out about one teams exploit they all copy it, blown diffusors, Fducts are recent examples.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by luke g28

To be honest I think that the championship is almost always won by the team that get away with "cheating" the most. My (perhaps cynical) view is that all the top / competitive teams are bending / exploiting the rules and the winning team is the one that gets the furthest without being told off.

Once everybody finds out about one teams exploit they all copy it, blown diffusors, Fducts are recent examples.

If this is the case, then the FIA/lawmakers only have themselves to blame when writing in too many "grey areas" into the rules.

[luke g28]

Originally Posted by Mr V

If this is the case, then the FIA/lawmakers only have themselves to blame when writing in too many "grey areas" into the rules.

meh had that debate on here several times already but I cant see it changing any time soon. Id argue its more because of the lack of any scope for the teams to improve their car rather than the rules being too loose. Once theyve maxed out what they are "allowed" to do it becomes who can bend the rules the furthest.

[strider]

Originally Posted by Dead-Eye

And I also don't understand the point he makes about braking. Unless it's ABS (which I doubt could be implemented secretly), what kind of driver aid enables someone to brake later?

Presumably if you know you can get on the power earlier without anything untoward happening you can afford to brake later.

My views on this whole thing are that, yes, Schumacher did have option 13 available until it was discovered and that, yes, Frank Williams should have protested the car at Aida when Senna detected what was going on. The FIA didn't have anyone on board capable of carrying out the necessary software investigation at that stage, but they could have sealed the ECU and sent it to Liverpool Data Associates.

No, I don't think it contributed in any way towards Senna's state of mind at Imola and no, I don't think his championship should be taken away now. What's done is done. It simply confirms my distaste for the people involved.

The penalty the FIA imposed after the Villeneuve incident in '97 was about as feeble and disgraceful as it's possible to get In effect it was a non-penalty, because it changed nothing and did not act as a deterrent in any way. No wonder he continued to drive in that fashion.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by kipper

Schumacher's career tally includes the '97 wins and points - they just didn't count towards the championship. It always seemed something of a weak penalty to me.

It was a way for the FIA to save face and Schumacher to be "publicly" punished with a pointless penalty. After all, the FIA didn't want to off it's biggest star did it?

[Pingguest]

Talking about Verstappen's credibility, I always found him aggressive, a complainant and always pointing fingers to someone else.
As a matter of coincidence he was arrested several times - once for abusing a stranger, several times for abusing his spouse, now being his ex-wife -, convicted once and was arrest again today. Now he is suspected of attempted murder or manslaughter on his current (ex-)girlfriend. Under normal circumstances, would anyone believe a statement of such a person?

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Pingguest

Talking about Verstappen's credibility, I always found him aggressive, a complainant and always pointing fingers to someone else.
As a matter of coincidence he was arrested several times - once for abusing a stranger, several times for abusing his spouse, now being his ex-wife -, convicted once and was arrest again today. Now he is suspected of attempted murder or manslaughter on his current (ex-)girlfriend. Under normal circumstances, would anyone believe a statement of such a person?

According to the Holy Bible, God killed or ordered the killing of over 2,000,000 individuals and even flooded the entire Earth on one occasion, and yet...........

[Razzzor]

Originally Posted by Marbot

According to the Holy Bible, God killed or ordered the killing of over 2,000,000 individuals and even flooded the entire Earth on one occasion, and yet...........

Yeah and that makes us all brothers and sisters of Noah and his wife? It's unbelievable that there are people out there stupid enough to believe this absurdity.

Anyway, I didn't realise Jos was such a scumbag. I wouldn't believe anything he says now regarding why he was a joke against Schumacher. Attempted murder? gosh.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Razzzor

Yeah and that makes us all brothers and sisters of Noah and his wife? It's unbelievable that there are people out there stupid enough to believe this absurdity.

Credit where credit's due. Noah and his wife managed to repopulate the planet with enough individuals to enable the Egyptians to build their Pyramids just three centuries later. Think about that. That's a lot of 'begetting' going on there!

Originally Posted by Razzzor

Anyway, I didn't realise Jos was such a scumbag. I wouldn't believe anything he says now regarding why he was a joke against Schumacher. Attempted murder? gosh.

Yes, he's not a particularly nice individual, but who are we to judge?

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Marbot

Yes, he's not a particularly nice individual, but who are we to judge?

Over 100 posts [8 pages] to this point, much of it giving credence to the views of a convicted criminal, whose just been arrested again, and who was firmly buried on the track by a Michael Schumacher in his prime. At best it could be considered sour grapes. Jos... best off keeping your mouth shut and stop beating up women !

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by davyboy

Over 100 posts [8 pages] to this point, much of it giving credence to the views of a convicted criminal, whose just been arrested again, and who was firmly buried on the track by a Michael Schumacher in his prime. At best it could be considered sour grapes. Jos... best off keeping your mouth shut and stop beating up women !

Yes, there are two issues. One is that Verstappen is a bad person and the other is that Verstappen claims to have not had the same equipment that Schumacher had. But he's not the only one who suspected that. That's the issue that is being dealt with in this thread.

[chunterer]

That is a fair point, who or what a person is has nothing to do with a thread about whether cars were bent or not!

[barnettracing]

Originally Posted by chunterer

That is a fair point, who or what a person is has nothing to do with a thread about whether cars were bent or not!

That's not strictly true, if said person was a liar (proven or assumed) then it calls into question the validity of any statement given by said person.

Not that I'm calling Jos a liar (just a woman-beating thug). And I'm only really playing devil's advocate with you here. This is starting to get off topic...

[EastonNeston]

No need to qualify it, Jos is a convicted thug.

Hopefully he receives an appropriate sentence and he's inside for a very long time.

[Bononi]

This thread has gone wild with comments that have nothing to do with the subject proposed.

To avoid possible infractions to off-topic comments and to keep the friendly attitude of our forum...

THREAD CLOSED