Have overtaking initiatives improved F1 ?

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by luke g28

Undecided on the deltawing design but interested to see how it goes at lemans.

It may go very well, but will it catch on? Is it relevant? Should F1 look at ways of having cars that don't rely on any down force creation?

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

That is a very ugly looking car though isn't it...

Ugly or Unconventional?

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

I would like to see the rules allow ground effects again..

The teams decided against that, both on cost and regulatory grounds.

Personally, I would like to see the cars rely as little as possible on any kind of down force creation.

[JeremySmith]

Unconventional and very ugly at the same time..

The concept of no downforce how would they achieve that I wonder,and still maintain cornering speeds?

I suppose I just prefer the simpler cars of the 1983 era..

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

Unconventional and very ugly at the same time..

The concept of no downforce how would they achieve that I wonder,and still maintain cornering speeds?

I suppose I just prefer the simpler cars of the 1983 era..

Absolutely.
Theres a really good piece on Autosport about what Steve Nichols (designer) had to say about the 1988 championship winning McLaren and working with Senna.

It seems all so different then and yet almost feels like yesterday.

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

Absolutely.
Theres a really good piece on Autosport about what Steve Nichols (designer) had to say about the 1988 championship winning McLaren and working with Senna.

It seems all so different then and yet almost feels like yesterday.

I saw that I thought it was really tremendous..

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

The concept of no downforce how would they achieve that I wonder,and still maintain cornering speeds?

Well, they could only do it through mechanical means, just like in the real world. But then you would have the purists up in arms about F1 no longer being what F1, in their opinion, should be.

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

I suppose I just prefer the simpler cars of the 1983 era..

1983 was the season in which F1 cars had to have mandatory 'flat bottoms' in order to reduce the dangerous side effects of the ground effect chassis. Teams clawed back some of the lost downforce by introducing larger wings. Most drivers had said that the full ground effect cars were very unpleasant to drive. Mario Andretti cited ground effects as the main reason to leave F1 in 1981. It was also causing medical problems for many of the drivers, mainly because the suspension had to be virtually unmoveable in order for the car to maintain an effective seal with the tarmac.

Ferrari at 1984 Dallas GP. Note rear wing.

[luke g28]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

Unconventional and very ugly at the same time..

The concept of no downforce how would they achieve that I wonder,and still maintain cornering speeds?

I suppose I just prefer the simpler cars of the 1983 era..

Where has the "no downforce" concept come from? The delta wing design has very high downforce but low wake. I used it to illustrate that the only reason we have such a high wake in F1 is because that is the only way to generate the required downforce within the current regulations not because that is the only possible way to generate downforce.

I think the ground effect problems could be addressed with clever active suspension. However that is also banned.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by luke g28

Where has the "no downforce" concept come from?

It's been used in Formula One before.

Originally Posted by luke g28

I think the ground effect problems could be addressed with clever active suspension. However that is also banned.

The main problem with the ground effect cars was that caused by the 'Porpoising' phenomenon. Even with rock hard suspension, the cars would be very pitch sensitive, and would rock backwards and forwards at inopportune moments. The other problem was that of losing all downforce if the car bottomed out on a corner. It was this 'on and off' nature of ground effects that lead to the banning of full ground effect cars. Current F1 cars still use ground effect to generate downforce, but it's obviously to a lesser degree than the 80's ground effect cars.

[wolfhound]

I see there will be changes made to the DRS zones next season to try to make passing possible but not too easy.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97041

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by wolfhound

I see there will be changes made to the DRS zones next season to try to make passing possible but not too easy.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97041

That's called "Tweaking the game".