Female World Championship

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Rob29

Sorry but Carmen must be the worst female to reach this level? Last in GP3 about her best result to date.Try a quote from Simona top of my list of those who should be in F1

You are hi-jacking the debate hear, I agree Carmen should not be in F1,
her observation about the problems facing a woman in an F1 cockpit are probably on the money.

The question that should be asked of Wolff, DeSilvestro, Cerutti, Jorda, Patrick is:

What unfair advantages do current F1 cars give male drivers?

We are dealing with machines that are capable of having power assist on everything, they have been skewed to allow underweight gnomes to be more competitive than Hulkenberg with power steering and too small cockpits, so their is no reason other than sexism for boosted brakes to be introduced for example, if that is what the females feel they need to be competitive.
Ask the question and see what suggestions the female drivers have, seems fair doesn't it?

[Paradise City]

A potential long term patron would look at a female driver and see her as extra speculative. In maturity, she may want to have children and it's women that carry the physical burden of that for some months. And it takes time to reach F1 and then actualise them as potential winners/WC only to be derailed by maternal aspirations. Long term sponsors may see a young female driver starting out in these terms.

I don't see a moral imperative to have moar women in F1 myself. A commercial angle possibly. However, if one or more women does get through to F1, they'll be just that bit more remarkable women.

[kurski]

The Finnish Factory: A Model for Increasing Female Participation
http://www.formulae.nyc/2015/04/the-...model-for.html

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by wnut

...basically a 100lb man will always be stronger than a 100lb woman....

while that is no doubt true across the general population i dont think that it necessarily holds among the relatively small segment of the population that one hopes through natural ability and training over the course of their lives will lead them to F1.

rather does a 17 year old boy ~100lbs boy necessarily have stronger better conditioned legs then a ~100llbs 30 year old who has been competing in said sport for considerably longer?

probably true 90-99% of the time that the boy is stronger but at the same time this should be about what exceptional people are capable of and not an examination of the ordinary. at the least i need to see it action before i can pass judgment.

Originally Posted by wnut

The formula also needs weight and size parity

agree with you there. F1 has become obsessed and too focused on a certain body type to the exclusion of looking for the best drivers regardless of size shape and also gender.

i think that this discussion and the one about max/age are examples of this. imo there is no 'one right way' to run this formula and overspecialization prevents change especially when change is needed.

Originally Posted by wnut

..."That's why a woman will never be in the top, because of the physical issue," Jorda said in a phone interview."

not sure how i feel about that quote. cant argue with her because she is in a far better position to answer this question than i am but i do take issue with the philosophy she is espousing (also dont know the context it was given in so could be completely off base with this).

this sort of sounds like 'if i cant win why bother trying' to me.

lots of examples of guys in F1 who will never be anything other than a very very distant second, should they also not bother? (well some maybe shouldn't)

anyways, lets see some women run a couple of races first before the 'how long will it take a woman to win the title' debate starts.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

Actually IndyCar is much more demanding, since they have no power steering. Simona de Silvestro has done well there.

Done well as in??? How many race wins does she have? She's not even a top ten driver in a series filled with people that often couldn't even hack it in minor european formula series.

I like her and she is determined but no one is going to confuse her with being a championship contender.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by kurski

Column: How to help women F1 drivers? Put one in every team
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...04-02-09-55-08

Here we go again, teams must be "forced" to take a third driver that is a woman.

We were told by the "progressives" previously that sex did not matter and all people should be judged on their merits. Now they are saying people should be judged on sex alone rather than their merits. Head explody.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

while that is no doubt true across the general population i dont think that it necessarily holds among the relatively small segment of the population that one hopes through natural ability and training over the course of their lives will lead them to F1.

rather does a 17 year old boy ~100lbs boy necessarily have stronger better conditioned legs then a ~100llbs 30 year old who has been competing in said sport for considerably longer?

probably true 90-99% of the time that the boy is stronger but at the same time this should be about what exceptional people are capable of and not an examination of the ordinary. at the least i need to see it action before i can pass judgment.

.

I deal with professional woman athletes and realistically they are at about the level of; and below in terms of physicality; of top class 16 year old boys who are not even on the same planet as far as male professionals would be.

Originally Posted by chillibowl

agree with you there. F1 has become obsessed and too focused on a certain body type to the exclusion of looking for the best drivers regardless of size shape and also gender.

i think that this discussion and the one about max/age are examples of this. imo there is no 'one right way' to run this formula and overspecialization prevents change especially when change is needed.

We are on the same page here Chillibowl, really bothers me that F1 does not sort out the size and weight issues, they are easily fixed, and would allow people like Nico Hulkenberg to be properly competitive. McLaren have already publicly stated that they are not interested in Hulkenberg because of his size! That to me is scandalous!

Originally Posted by chillibowl

not sure how i feel about that quote. cant argue with her because she is in a far better position to answer this question than i am but i do take issue with the philosophy she is espousing (also dont know the context it was given in so could be completely off base with this).

this sort of sounds like 'if i cant win why bother trying' to me.

lots of examples of guys in F1 who will never be anything other than a very very distant second, should they also not bother? (well some maybe shouldn't)

anyways, lets see some women run a couple of races first before the 'how long will it take a woman to win the title' debate starts.

The FIA should at least gather the top women drivers together and find out what they believe the hurdles to being competitive are!

Expecting somebody to compete where the hurdle to entry is just too high before you change the regulations just guarantees that they will fail.

There are stories of drivers using two feet on the brake pedal in modern F1 cars, if true, this alone would preclude a woman from competing against the men.

Let us at least ask the woman who are at the elite level why they think are uncompetitive with the men!

[speedreader]

Driving a top level single seater has less to do with the physical strength required to push a brake pedal or turn a steering wheel and more to do with the multiple exposures of high g force stress for extended lengths of time. Females will always suffer against their male counterparts when it comes to developing the strength required for such sustained physical stress.
Indycar, especially on ovals, is more of a constant level of force and therefore a little easier to manage, hence why there have been some competitive females there but with the continued stop start forces of F1, Indycars on street circuits and even the likes of GP2, it is getting to the absolute upper limits of what a small female frame can endure, no matter how fit they are.
Its why we see such competitive females in the likes of drag racing - massive G forces of acceleration & de-acceleration with extreme reaction times & skills but for shorter duration only and therefore more manageable

[S griffin]

I think women need to be tomboyish to do well in this. Danica seems to be one, which why she's done well enough to get in the top standings in Indycar. Just my thought that's all

[bella]

not so much tomboyish but you do need to forego certain things that would not be compatible with normal "female expectations".

such as in your early days in karting spending a lot of time camping. getting grubby. hauling stuff around and developing a strong upper body and losing waist definition.

things you can hang onto are nice nails, a suntan, long hair, heels, skirts...

we're all built differently. those of us with broader shoulders would be better suited to the sport than the more traditional female smaller shape.

[NaBUru38]

The issue is the bottom of the ladder, not F1. How many women are racing in Formula Renault or Formula 3?

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

The issue is the bottom of the ladder, not F1. How many women are racing in Formula Renault or Formula 3?

Exactly. Massively generalising here, but on the whole, motor sport is not a pastime that is as attractive to females as it is to males, in very much the same way that, in amateur circles, sporting equestrian activities are more appealing to females than males. And there is nothing wrong with that, per se. Therefore, there is only a tiny pool of female talent from which to choose, and for whatever reason, there are very few of them who match up to their male counter-parts.

However, in my opinion the major obstacles that female drivers will encounter is exactly the same ones as the males. They will need to be ultra fit, and will have had to build up their neck and shoulder muscles so as to withstand the high g-force pressures that the drivers undergo on both cornering and braking. I believe that building up those muscles is more difficult to achieve than building up leg muscles to activate the brakes.

[bella]

i guess most of the difficulty is that there's no straightforward training for neck muscles. legs are easy, arms are easy, core is easy, but the neck requires either specialist kit or a bit of a botch which isn't something you want to be messing about with when it comes to the neck.

sounds daft but i think girls who like noisy stuff with engines go for motocross and bikes instead of karting.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by S griffin

I think women need to be tomboyish to do well in this. Danica seems to be one, which why she's done well enough to get in the top standings in Indycar. Just my thought that's all

She won one race that was handed to her but never won anything else or even came that close before or since. In fact the series had to make changes so she could drive the car such as allowing her a special steering rack outside the rules and having the goofy weight rules so she could have a weight advantage.

[Bob Baldwin]

A few years back when we were involved in karting , A friends daughter was also involved in karting . At the time she was in high school and was very much into track and field events . Literally 3-4 hours per day Running , Exercising , Weight lifting , etc; another family friend had her on a " Nutritional " type diet ,So all in all " Very Athletic . "

I have a little idea about " G" forces but when she came off a Sprint Kart Track the only physical complaint I ever heard was her neck was sore . . Here in the USA we also race on Long tracks Kart Road Racing . Daytona , VIR , Road Atlanta " for a while anyways ." When she came in after a session when asked how she was feeling . The neck problems were non-existent .

Never been able to figure that one out .

[Paradise City]

Sarah Fisher had certain competitive moments although the field in the IRL at that time elderly-ish and fairly mediocre. She had a test with Mclaren for the novelty of it, can't remember how that turned out. Clearly didn't cause a stir, suffice to say.

Silvestro is strong and psychologically tough. Reminds me of Desire Wilson. Danica seems psychologically fragile and is not someone who sways me but she is a cut above Susie Wolff IMO.

At the end of the day, the back of an F1 grid is never the pinnacle; you can get there with lot's of cash and I suppose, most of the aforementioned would do OK as backmarkers if they had the backing to take them there. For me, Silvestro is the best although not a winner really.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

For me, Silvestro is the best although not a winner really.

To really stake her claim as being worthy for F1 she needed to win a few times in the states in a championship not highly rated for driving talent. That she failed to do so or even come close really isn't going to fly with F1 unless she brings a tanker truck full of cash to some desperate team in need of money. No race winning pedigree, no big checks or suitcases of cash, no drive.

[bauble]

I'd like to say this subject has 'legs' but it might be misinterpreted.

[Armco Bender]

Seeing I haven't been able to break into F1 over the last 40 years do you think gender reassingment surgery will enhance my chances of making the F1 Ladies Championship?.
What about my new racing name "Amelia Bender"...too sexy or not butch enough?.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Armco Bender

Seeing I haven't been able to break into F1 over the last 40 years do you think gender reassingment surgery will enhance my chances of making the F1 Ladies Championship?.
What about my new racing name "Amelia Bender"...too sexy or not butch enough?.

Good luck Amelia, I still have serious doubts about how promotable you will be to sponsors though!

[Bob Baldwin]

Well here in the USA with the politically Correct crowd They have decided that the Tax Payers should PAY for the surgery for a Guy in Prison to be Converted to She-Male
Perhaps that could be an option !!!
Or with the PC crowd Advertising on TV , I am sure a Femine Hygiene Company would Love to be affiliated with you

[garcon]

Armco, you're lucky I don't have access to change your username...

[Hawkwood]

I agree with the posters above saying that the problem is at the bottom of the single seater ladder, so how about instead of a female only F1 series, why not one or two female only feeder series?
Might sound odd, but there are far more girls in karting than there are further up the ladder, so maybe a FR2.0/Formula Ford level series, and an F3/GP3 level series?

This would at least guarantee a certain number of ladies have the same amount of 'training' as the boys of the same age.
That would help more ladies get into FR3.5/GP2 and eventually into F1.
Maybe. Or maybe not.


That's my two-cents anyway.

[Asa]

I think IndyCar will probably take the initiative and develop a female championship along with a female Indy Lights championship, ahead of F1.

After that F1 will make its own female championship and get the drivers from IndyCar as usual.

[JABWOA]

I do agree that an international feeder class is the correct way to go, even if it's on the F1 support list.