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Old 12 Dec 2017, 05:49 (Ref:3786465)   #76
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Trevor should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Point-to-point cameras in Victoria are used to monitor the speed of heavy vehicles and cars.
Clarified
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Old 12 Dec 2017, 06:08 (Ref:3786472)   #77
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mayhem should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridmayhem should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Clarified
Who mentioned Victoria?

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In NSW, Fixed Speed Cameras also use timing loops. IIRC the one on Spit Hill was found to be faulty (loop wires were too close together).
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Old 12 Dec 2017, 07:14 (Ref:3786483)   #78
Umai Naa
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Umai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridUmai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
For as long as it takes for the truck to pass through both gantries.
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Old 20 Dec 2017, 01:48 (Ref:3788221)   #79
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ford71 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridford71 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
So after a decent wait, the DJRTP / VASC meeting has been held and....... well nothing. Both parties telling the same story, the anomaly remains but everyone respecting the others opinion. The end.
Roll on 2018!

https://www.speedcafe.com/2017/12/20/djrtp-releases-statement-regarding-pit-lane-review/

Last edited by ford71; 20 Dec 2017 at 01:50. Reason: adding link
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Old 20 Dec 2017, 02:43 (Ref:3788227)   #80
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Compromised should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
To me this is unacceptable - either Penske were wrong and caused a lot of fuss over nothing or there was something wrong with Supercars timing system. Closure is needed.
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Old 20 Dec 2017, 02:46 (Ref:3788228)   #81
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Someone got is wrong and as a result likely effected the championship outcome. Funny thing is, I doubt either party will change a thing with their systems either since it appears both trust their sources.
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Old 20 Dec 2017, 03:36 (Ref:3788235)   #82
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here is DJRTP statment

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While both parties respect each other’s position, the timing loops remain the best measurement method currently available to the judicial system for the rules to be enforced and policed in a timely and fair manner.
Nothing will change, because there isnt a better method.
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Old 20 Dec 2017, 03:54 (Ref:3788237)   #83
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So no better method implies Supercars data is more accurate than Penske. Why then doesn't the article say Supercars right, Penske wrong?
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Old 20 Dec 2017, 04:03 (Ref:3788238)   #84
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So no better method implies Supercars data is more accurate than Penske. Why then doesn't the article say Supercars right, Penske wrong?
That was never the goal for either party.

It has however what the tin foil hat brigade wanted to happen
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Old 20 Dec 2017, 04:47 (Ref:3788242)   #85
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So no better method implies Supercars data is more accurate than Penske. Why then doesn't the article say Supercars right, Penske wrong?
Because the item was put out by DJRTP and they must be struggling with the idea of saying they got it wrong.
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Old 20 Dec 2017, 04:53 (Ref:3788245)   #86
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Axeman444 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridAxeman444 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Because the item was put out by DJRTP and they must be struggling with the idea of saying they got it wrong.
Or are trying to say they are agreeing to disagree, while providing a political and undivided position
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Old 20 Dec 2017, 05:05 (Ref:3788250)   #87
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Or are trying to say they are agreeing to disagree, while providing a political and undivided position


Same thing really. Release looks like a bit of face saving to me, also not wanting to stir up anything more. It’s good that they’ve drawn a line under it, although the same meeting could have happened with no releases & reached the same outcome.
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Old 20 Dec 2017, 07:06 (Ref:3788267)   #88
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It has however what the tin foil hat brigade wanted to happen
That's my point though mate, some of the comments on social media about this really had me worried - just scary how some deal with things not going their way. I feel like Supercars needed to say "we were right, our methodology is as good as it gets". Instead what we got is a response that will surely fuel the conspiracies.

Missed opportunity to show the fans how technologically savvy the series is when it comes this issue
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Old 20 Dec 2017, 07:16 (Ref:3788270)   #89
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That's my point though mate, some of the comments on social media about this really had me worried - just scary how some deal with things not going their way. I feel like Supercars needed to say "we were right, our methodology is as good as it gets". Instead what we got is a response that will surely fuel the conspiracies.

Missed opportunity to show the fans how technologically savvy the series is when it comes this issue
Fair call, the comments make you understand why supercars shut down their comments section.

But the truth is. They did say their system is correct 100% accurate. Fool proof even. did it soon after the dJR press release. they even explained the system

Its DJR who are trying to do the dirty thing here, bring in other forms of unrelated data and trying to match them, and that just fanned the flames of some hurt people.

For the record (again) I believe the punishment is too harsh, should be same as a jump start. Can see no logical reason to have it different
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Old 20 Dec 2017, 09:38 (Ref:3788282)   #90
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fomoco should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridfomoco should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Fair call, the comments make you understand why supercars shut down their comments section.

But the truth is. They did say their system is correct 100% accurate. Fool proof even. did it soon after the dJR press release. they even explained the system

Its DJR who are trying to do the dirty thing here, bring in other forms of unrelated data and trying to match them, and that just fanned the flames of some hurt people.

For the record (again) I believe the punishment is too harsh, should be same as a jump start. Can see no logical reason to have it different
Every sporting code will back their system 100%.
Any team in any competition can ask for clarification.
The media release from both organisations in regards to this request to clarify, is like the writing of a politicians speech during an election campaign
I don't support either organisation, but like most ppl, and like a lot on this forum, we just want clarity, and consistency

Onwards and upwards for 2018
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Old 20 Dec 2017, 13:39 (Ref:3788332)   #91
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Surely the correct method of measurement is whatever it is defined as in the regulations which apply to that particular meeting, venue or series. People can offer alternatives but if the judge of fact measures it in a defined method then it's the same for all.

In other words, 'thank you for your input, but we do it like this'. End of discussion.
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Old 20 Dec 2017, 21:33 (Ref:3788412)   #92
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Compromised should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Problem is Penske has shown their (questionable) data, which has seeded doubt amongst some. This could have potentially been mitigated by the release of data from Supercars itself.

The perception amongst some seems to be coverup - yesterdays release only strengthed that spurious argument.
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Old 20 Dec 2017, 21:47 (Ref:3788415)   #93
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Problem is Penske has shown their (questionable) data, which has seeded doubt amongst some. This could have potentially been mitigated by the release of data from Supercars itself.

The perception amongst some seems to be coverup - yesterdays release only strengthed that spurious argument.
Im struggling with what data is expected. Are you able to define what you mean when you say this.

As far as i can see there is only one bit of data that can be given. the speed over the distance. ie 43kmh (or whatever speed it is)
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Old 20 Dec 2017, 23:38 (Ref:3788426)   #94
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Sorry I don't mean data in the sense that you or I would recognise, more something that the viewers could identify with. That's where I believe Penske did so well - presentation. They had pretty pictures with speed overlayed etc and it seemed to be effective in swaying people. I don't like to say it, but maybe the message needs to be dumbed down ala Penskes pretty pictures presentation to really penetrate viewerland.
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Old 20 Dec 2017, 23:47 (Ref:3788427)   #95
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Sorry I don't mean data in the sense that you or I would recognise, more something that the viewers could identify with. That's where I believe Penske did so well - presentation. They had pretty pictures with speed overlayed etc and it seemed to be effective in swaying people. I don't like to say it, but maybe the message needs to be dumbed down ala Penskes pretty pictures presentation to really penetrate viewerland.
ok. I think ist pretty hard to show a number ona computer screen in any special way because thats all a timing loop data is

I guess we could jazz it up to look like this, but thats all there is (i used shell colours )


43 km/h
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Old 22 Dec 2017, 22:02 (Ref:3788765)   #96
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Chappelli should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridChappelli should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Sorry I don't mean data in the sense that you or I would recognise, more something that the viewers could identify with. That's where I believe Penske did so well - presentation. They had pretty pictures with speed overlayed etc and it seemed to be effective in swaying people. I don't like to say it, but maybe the message needs to be dumbed down ala Penskes pretty pictures presentation to really penetrate viewerland.
Sorry, what data beyond the razzle dazzle F1 style, uber tech, ten times better than perfect puffed up PR statement have they released?
Would have thought it's easy enough for V8SC to publish the time taken to cover the 5m.... and if you're system is that accurate, what is the use of the leeway Baird spoke of?
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Old 22 Dec 2017, 23:28 (Ref:3788776)   #97
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What are the known variables in the whole system?
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Old 22 Dec 2017, 23:50 (Ref:3788780)   #98
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Sorry, what data beyond the razzle dazzle F1 style, uber tech, ten times better than perfect puffed up PR statement have they released?
Would have thought it's easy enough for V8SC to publish the time taken to cover the 5m.... and if you're system is that accurate, what is the use of the leeway Baird spoke of?
I would have thought that if someone really needed the data they would know exactly how long its takes for a car travelling 40 km/h to travel 5 meters.

If they dont know that, really the data is wasted.

If it also helps, if you are calling into doubt the time travelled over the timing loop, you are also calling into doubt if Scott got all those pole positions legitimately, and especially the accuracy of those 1000th of a second they use to separate the cars
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Old 23 Dec 2017, 02:28 (Ref:3788793)   #99
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I would have thought that if someone really needed the data they would know exactly how long its takes for a car travelling 40 km/h to travel 5 meters.

If they dont know that, really the data is wasted.

If it also helps, if you are calling into doubt the time travelled over the timing loop, you are also calling into doubt if Scott got all those pole positions legitimately, and especially the accuracy of those 1000th of a second they use to separate the cars
I'm not sure what your first point is.... but pretty easy to explain that the magic number is 0.45s and Scott travelled the distance in X. Given how much V8SC have to lose (which is somewhat highlighted in your second point) it's interesting that all they've presented in public is hyperbole..... perhaps presenting the data raises that's less about the infalable technology and more about the human adjudication of a 'tolerance'.... especially given that apparent lack of need for it.
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Old 23 Dec 2017, 04:37 (Ref:3788797)   #100
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I'm not sure what your first point is.... but pretty easy to explain that the magic number is 0.45s and Scott travelled the distance in X. Given how much V8SC have to lose (which is somewhat highlighted in your second point) it's interesting that all they've presented in public is hyperbole..... perhaps presenting the data raises that's less about the infalable technology and more about the human adjudication of a 'tolerance'.... especially given that apparent lack of need for it.
so all you are really saying is you want to know what speed they were doing?
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