Brabham BT30

[Ted Walker]

Andrew. Im sure they wanted it before then. Brabhams always seemed very bad on delivery of customer cars,unlike March.

[Andrew Fellowes]

A bit like 1969 & the BT30 Ted? Why were they so slow, it wasn't exactly a difficult car to build?

[Bryan Miller]

I think it was something to do with , you want a car you put a serious deposit down, and you pay for it before it leaves the works.
YPF had only taken del. of their 2 cars about mid season as well , apparently if people were not correct with their payments work stopped.
The previous year it was a matter of delivery of the new regulations requirement of bag tanks , and del.of these was slow.

Ted , where and when did Moser's 2 cars surface again after 1971/2.

Bryan.

[Andrew Fellowes]

BT30-21 & 22 1971
Brambilla Inc. –You build them, we bend them.


It was reported earlier that both these cars were scrapped in period. The records however show that after the accident at Pau, with Vittorio on March 25th ’71, both cars turned up at Nurburgring where Vittorio then has another go and looks like he was successful this time.

Did the same car get bent both times by Vittorio or did they swap chassis?

By Crystal Palace on May 31st they still had a BT30 and turned up plus a March 712.
(By Monza the surviving BT30 had also been replaced with a March 712. At Mantorp Tino tries a Tecno and reverts to a March at Vallelunga. )

That explains how come Ted saw BT30-22 at the Monza Museum. A very lucky car!

[Andrew Fellowes]

Nop, still wrong. Once again there was a 3rd chassis. Thats the 2nd time I have been caught out!

Tino wanted to build engines so handed his entry at Pau to Vittorio who 'bounced off armco to armco'. End of BT30-21

Vittorio then goes into the crowd at Nurburgring with his own car, end of BT30-22.
Autosport says Tino had the ex Picchi car BT30-6 but I am sure this should read BT30-4.

So what is the Monza Museum car? 22 with a new chassis? Unlikely as the chassis is last years from the AM number, but possible.
Is it BT30-4? Again wrong AM number.
I'll go with new chassis taken out of last years stock, unless someone can tell me otherwise?

[phdm]

The German BT30 is the car of Sepp Mayer (sitting next to a BT28).
Had a brief look at it a year ago but I cannot find any trace of a chassis number in my notes. I was told the car came from Italy. Has clear BT36 features: bodywork, inboard rear brakes, hollow A/R bars.
Fitted with Hart BDA on carbs.

[Andrew Fellowes]

Originally posted by phdm

BT36-11 : is this the car that Alain Filhol used in 92 in Euro F2 before it went to Roncchi in Italy ? [/B]

David I believe this is now in the Murray stable with BT30-12

[Andrew Fellowes]

The BT30 in Japan I hope to be able to give a chassis number to in a couple of weeks.

Andrew

[Bryan Miller]

phdm. Thank you very much and wellcome.

The car I am still struggling with is BT30-17 , as Ted Walker reports that no apparent accident damage when car returned to U.K. for restoration , yet Moser stuffs it into the Armco resulting in Autosport reporting severe rear frame damage .

Bryan.

[Chris Townsend]

I have some additional period history for BT30-8

I have long puzzled over the BT36 that appears in one Silverstone Atlantic race in 1974 with Peter Vincent at the wheel.

Then I found these adverts in Autosport

20.1.72 'BT30 raced by Reid last year' P.Vincent, Cranberry Lodge Garage, Bryn, Nr. Wigan

and

5.6.75 'BT30 with 36 suspension' P.Vincent, Wigan

So, Vincent buys 30-8 off Reid at the end of 1971, doesn't sell it, and instead puts 36 suspension on it [hence calling it a 36 in 1974] and finally disposes of it in '75

Any help to anyone?

Chris

[Andrew Fellowes]

Chris many thanks for the 30-8 update. For me of course its especially interesting as I had that car for several years.
I wonder what they up dated to 36 spec? The suspension pick up points are different on 30 to a 36 but as I never measured them I had assumed it was pure BT30. The rear frame was standard BT30 box section with out board brakes, I had the top rear cross member changed to make it detachable like the 36. The work was done by the lads that made the chassis originally.
The chassis had been wrapped around a tree hill climbing and the starter motor fouled on the near side rear upright so I had it scalloped to allow clearance. Driven near the limit it got quite twitchy unlike the 36 I now own which is very placid by comparison. Yet it all looked straight.
It must be a rare 30 in that it still retains the aluminium fuel tanks.

Chris, thanks again & I will pass that on to its owner in the States who I know will appreciate the information, -he has all my files on the car!! -I wish I had kept copies!

Andrew

[Bryan Miller]

Chris.

Isn't it strange , last night Andrew and I were each working away at every adv. in Autosport , Andrew 1974 , and myself 75/6 , and then emailing to Ian Henderson , so he could figure his cars history out better.

One of the adverts. was 5-6-1975 , p56.

Brabham BT30 with 36 suspension, replated , repainted, new nose , overhauled FT200, 2 sets 10s and 14s, 7 assorted Firestone B47's, set B36 wets, plus set 7 and 10 revolutions with inters , 1200.00 the lot P . Vincent , Byfleet 42266 [ bus ] , Loxwood 752315 [ home ].
Guess this is BT30-8. Another bit of the jigsaw.

BT30-14 , I checked with Brian Wilson the other day , and he did indeed sell car to Art Valdez in the U.S.A , and as far as Brian is aware Art still retains car.
Brian and I then kicked each other in penance.

Regards Bryan.

[Andrew Fellowes]

Bryan, I thought I had seen the name from one of the ads you found in A/S for Ian yesterday.

This doesn't help much but perhaps some one else can!

John Hardesty drove a BT36 in F Libre in '74, and the add you found, 10-7-75 BT36 ex John Hardesty with racing services 2.0 alloy , ft200 , will split

It could be 3, 9 or 10.

It can't be 2, 5, 8, 11 or 12.

1, 4, 6 & 7 are unlikely but possible.

74 is the same year that Jose Arauyo was racing a BT36 in Atlantic.

The options are are slowly reducing!!
Andrew

[David Irwin]

I see I'm pretty late in getting involved here. First a brief intro:

My name is David Irwin, I owned a restoration shop, Lime Rock Motors for 15 years in Connecticut. I've restored about 15 Brabhams, have owned several and have vintage raced since 1989. Recently moved to Virginia, bought some property where I'm putting up a small shop (3200 sq. ft.) while I work for ProtoType Technology Group restoring vintage racing BMW's owneds by BMW of N.A.

Here are some Brabham's I've had contact with:


BT30-7 David Irwin bought car from Fabio Montani, from ad, 1997, frame modified, but car complete, Restored frame to original specs, car restored by Lime Rock Motors, FVA/FT200. Car formerly one of the Jolly Club cars restored in period markings, I have more info on this car, just can't seem to find it. Sold to present owner Bary Marquart 1998.

BT30-20 UK to Fred Harris 1995, restored and raced by Lime Rock Motors, FVA/FT200, Sold to Mike Taradash 2001?, sold to present owner Bob Baker 2001. Crashed in 2002? restored by JR Mitchell.

Hope this helps fill in some gaps for you. Keep up the good work, this info should help many in the future. David Irwin

[Andrew Fellowes]

Arch Motors Numbers & Initials

After the Arch motor number are often initials. These were the initials of the guys who made that chassis.

Can anyone put names to the initials?

I know a couple of employees from 69 to 71 period set up on their own near Kimbolton (‘cause they did work for me) but I have long since lost their address, -indeed they may well have retired.

When I sold 30-8 I was able to supply the names to match the initials. Nice. Can anyone help?

Andrew

[Tim Barry]

Have just joined this forum and am amazed and delighted to see the interest and enthusiasm here!

Just a quick thought concerning Philip Guerola's BT30. I believe that the car was cannibalised and the suspension, wheels, engine and gearbox were used in the construction of the Wimhurst FAtlantic by Len Wimhurst for Philip to race in FAt and Group 8.

[Andrew Fellowes]

Originally posted by Tim Barry
Just a quick thought concerning Philip Guerola's BT30. I believe that the car was cannibalised and the suspension, wheels, engine and gearbox were used in the construction of the Wimhurst FAtlantic by Len Wimhurst for Philip to race in FAt and Group 8.

Tim, If my notes are correct that was BT30-11. Very interesting!


BT30-2

I have been re-reading pages 1 to 101 (it feels like that) to see if I am re hashing old ground, so my apologies in advance if I am exhuming the dead & buried.

The suggestion is that the two listings by Autosport of Peter Westbury being in 30-2 at Hockenhein & Reims are possibly misprints.

Perhaps not.

A/S June 18th 1970 John Wingfield has tested Peter Westbury’s car “that he used all last season” with a view to doing a full season next year and doing a couple of races this year.
In fact he is out the next month at La Castellet and does 4 more races after that. So I assume that J W has bought BT30-3 by July 1970.

A/S Nov 5th 1970 Felday Engineering, For sale, Peter Westbury’s BT30 chassis number 2.

This cannot be a typo for BT30-3 because its already been sold!!

Andrew

[Andrew Fellowes]

BT29X

A/S Oct 15th, 1970 p.15
Tony Griffiths has an ad for BT29X to full BT30 spec. for sale.
Did he drive a BT29 & a BT30 in 1970?

Annnnd…, how many Brabhams did he have please?

BT29X and BT30X2 and BT35X2, or have I made a real stuff up on my notes?


Andrew

[Andrew Fellowes]

Bryan I have a b & w photo of Tony Griffiths in his FVC BT30, looks like series one fuel tanks. Does a 29 have the same engine cover and fuel tanks as a 30? -I am wondering if the caption for the photo is wrong.

As regards BT30 2 and 3 I guess a phone call would solve that one!!

[Dan Rear]

Tim Barry, I assume you're the chap who raced at Brands/Lydden etc in the 80s and 90s ? Any good tales to tell of your racing, in a F5000, FF and F Talbot IIRC. On the BT30/Wimhurst issue, I saw Philip in this in Atlantic quite a bit. Does the car still exist, I wonder how it would go in contemporary historic racing ??

[David Irwin]

Andrew,

The BT29 and BT30 share the same engine cover. The BT29 has a fiberglass undertray (no side bulge) with the fuel cell behind the seat. The BT30 has fiberglass sidepods with fuel cells located inside. BT30 side pods are the same as BT36. Most BT35's had aluminum side tanks with fiberglass contoured ends, fore and aft.

David Irwin

[Tim Barry]

Dan Rear

Yes I am the chap who raced the F5000, etc, etc, at Brands, Lydden and just about everywhere in the 80's and 90's and into the 2000's! Will be out in the Derek Bell Trophy and FORCE with the March this year.
Don't know if the Wimhurst still exists; Richard Piper raced it in Atlantic then Roger Fullager raced it as the "RJF" at Lydden

[Andrew Fellowes]

Originally posted by Ted Walker
. I later owned this car when it had a Rover engine installed and sold it to Shaun Mooney,who had it fitted witha BDA by Simon Hadfield.

Ah! some memory cells are awakening, -thank you Ted!

So who was BT30X2?

& this was the car that was cloned,

Andrew

[Andrew Fellowes]

Originally posted by David Irwin
BT30 side pods are the same as BT36.

David Irwin

David & Bryan thank you for the details.

There is one exception to the BT30 side pods and that is the 1969 BT 30's came with metal tanks as on BT30-8 which is now in the States. Most would have been upgraded in 1970 so this must be a very rare car now. I think if I still owned it I would put them away because they made the cockpit very tight -apart from the safety issue!

Andrew

[David Irwin]

Andrew,

I would not know if all early BT30's had 'metal' tanks. I restored BT30-7, which came from Italy, I received it with, what I assumed by the condition (beat-up), the original Fiberglass side pods.

When you say 'metal' I assume you mean aluminum?

Just trying to muddle the waters. David