Formula Ford 2012

[Alan Raine]

Originally Posted by Ramonramon

I'm ray. George Blundells dad.

Good luck with it Ray. George looked good and can certainly pedal a Formula Ford quickly.

[simon drabble]

Just seen this http://news.motorsportvision.co.uk/d...-this-may.aspx not sure if they are just Saturday of both days but should be good to see some notable former FF old boys in action at the same meeting as this years students

[Stephen Green]

I think it's Saturday Simon as most would have been full of alcohol after the Saturday night bash to have driven on the Sunday last year

[jondownunder]

Originally Posted by simon drabble

Just seen this http://news.motorsportvision.co.uk/d...-this-may.aspx not sure if they are just Saturday of both days but should be good to see some notable former FF old boys in action at the same meeting as this years students

The timetable is up on the MSV/Brands site now:
http://www.brandshatch.co.uk/media/846483/dtm_bh.pdf

The Scirocco race is on the Saturday. Really looking forward to this meeting

[brakedisc]

Does anyone have any interest in this Formula anymore? Is it producing the goods? Will it survive?

My personal opinion is that this year is an embarrassment to the good name that was once Formula Ford racing. Hang your head in shame all those who came up with this rubbish. Total overpriced joke.

[barnettracing]

Originally Posted by brakedisc

Does anyone have any interest in this Formula anymore?

I, obviously, have an interest in FF1600. But, the EcoBoost is just nonsense. In a few years I would put money on this going the same way as FRenault UK unless Ford actually put some of their own money into it for once just to save face.

Hopefully if this dies, people will realise how good the 'Kent' engine still is. A cheap, accessible way for anyone to start racing single seaters. Unlike this rubbish.

[HaydenFan]

Originally Posted by brakedisc

Does anyone have any interest in this Formula anymore? Is it producing the goods? Will it survive?

My personal opinion is that this year is an embarrassment to the good name that was once Formula Ford racing. Hang your head in shame all those who came up with this rubbish. Total overpriced joke.

I have a friend running the Duratec class this year, so I have a bit of interest.

Originally Posted by barnettracing

I, obviously, have an interest in FF1600. But, the EcoBoost is just nonsense. In a few years I would put money on this going the same way as FRenault UK unless Ford actually put some of their own money into it for once just to save face.

Hopefully if this dies, people will realise how good the 'Kent' engine still is. A cheap, accessible way for anyone to start racing single seaters. Unlike this rubbish.

The idea that you had to buy an overpriced spec car was crazy. Plus, the car is bigger and I believe less hp than the previous model.

Britain is the only place where FF1600 has a major series in the world, and like you say, unless Ford wants to invest in that, I don't see it staying much longer. Only thing I think could save it is a move up. I know there will be an argument, but FF2000 is working in North America, and with the wings, at least has a chance to compete with the other series at the same level for potential drivers.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by barnettracing

I, obviously, have an interest in FF1600. But, the EcoBoost is just nonsense. In a few years I would put money on this going the same way as FRenault UK unless Ford actually put some of their own money into it for once just to save face.

Hopefully if this dies, people will realise how good the 'Kent' engine still is. A cheap, accessible way for anyone to start racing single seaters. Unlike this rubbish.

EcoBoost hasn't gone down well at all... just about everyone I know has voiced descent about it. I don't know whether it's too early to tell or not, but it's starting to look like it was a mistake.

The problem with the Kent engine is that it's becoming scarcer which in time will cause it to become more expensive to build/maintain. What they ought to have done was look to get an engine that was as ubiquitous and cheap as the Kent engine was back in the day... and ensure that it could retro fit into a Kent engined chassis. By introducing a complete change to the entire formula, they've grossly misread the needs and desires of the majority of current and future Formula Ford racers.

[Flavio Galtieri]

Originally Posted by davyboy

EcoBoost hasn't gone down well at all... just about everyone I know has voiced descent about it. I don't know whether it's too early to tell or not, but it's starting to look like it was a mistake.

The problem with the Kent engine is that it's becoming scarcer which in time will cause it to become more expensive to build/maintain. What they ought to have done was look to get an engine that was as ubiquitous and cheap as the Kent engine was back in the day... and ensure that it could retro fit into a Kent engined chassis. By introducing a complete change to the entire formula, they've grossly misread the needs and desires of the majority of current and future Formula Ford racers.

I pretty much agree with that.

In my personal view the Kent engine was great in the 70s and 80s but now they make no sense at all, save for an introduction to single seaters in club racing, which I accept is affordable and of course the various classic series which look like great fun.

However, they are ridiculously expensive to rebuild in my experience, which is required far too frequently and you still get enormous disparities in power output. I've heard of "really good" Kents changing hands for £7,500......

Club Duratec is the way to go perhaps? Equal power throughout the field, remap it for say 125 bhp, requiring rebuilds every 3 years maybe....

But ecoboost is a nonsense. Doesn't fulfill the Formula Ford ethos at all.

[50-SIX]

Originally Posted by Flavio Galtieri

I pretty much agree with that.


However, they are ridiculously expensive to rebuild in my experience, which is required far too frequently and you still get enormous disparities in power output. I've heard of "really good" Kents changing hands for £7,500......

Club Duratec is the way to go perhaps? Equal power throughout the field, remap it for say 125 bhp, requiring rebuilds every 3 years maybe....

But ecoboost is a nonsense. Doesn't fulfill the Formula Ford ethos at all.

100% agree with that. Formula Ford should be based on the current Aussie regs worldwide. There cars look great and they get good grids.


From OZ FF website.
Engine: 1600cc, 100ps DOHC four-cylinder Ford Fiesta engine, sealed on cylinder head and front and rear crankshaft seal covers.

Developing 81kW the engine is tuned to develop 125 bhp at 7,000rpm. All components and measurements are specified and the Formula benefits from the worldwide parts support provided by the Ford Motor Company.



I have said it many times before. Kent is great, but the engie needs replacing for teh reasons Flav describes above. With one of these you would fork out £5k and probably a bit more to fit it, but once done it would last for seasons.

[formerf1champ]

I'm beginning to think fford has to die first, before any serious changes are made to it. We all love ffords, but the people/associations responsible for it are just not fair dinkum, atm.

Originally Posted by 50-SIX

100% agree with that. Formula Ford should be based on the current Aussie regs worldwide. There cars look great and they get good grids.

The last national series round at Phillip island had about a dozen cars. Were you talking about state series?

[grumpyf14d]

The states introduced a new pro series last year that seems to have hit a good note with the racing community as it has created a series where the Kent and a modern Honda co-exist. This year more and more Honda Fit engines are finding their way into the series. I would imagine that trend will continue until all competitors will at some point have a Honda in their car then I bet they allow more HP to say 120-125.

That series seems to have found a way to introduce a new engine that requires less maintenance all the while not alienating the Kent community. At some point I would imagine that the Kent powered cars will compete in a historic series leaving the more modern power plant to the pro and club series. This I believe is inevitable and something that should happen sooner than later.

The series seems to have rejuvenated the class to the point that some 30+ cars are on the grid for every race. Castle Combe has tried to create a similar approach with just the Duratec but it hasn't seemed to have hit a note with the competitors.

It would be great to see a series where the local guy could still race with the pros for a few races a year like it had in the past when the Kent was still in the pro series. This would increase the fields and draw more spectators. Everyone likes to root for the local guy who is racing with the big boys.

[HaydenFan]

Originally Posted by grumpyf14d

The states introduced a new pro series last year that seems to have hit a good note with the racing community as it has created a series where the Kent and a modern Honda co-exist. This year more and more Honda Fit engines are finding their way into the series. I would imagine that trend will continue until all competitors will at some point have a Honda in their car then I bet they allow more HP to say 120-125.

That series seems to have found a way to introduce a new engine that requires less maintenance all the while not alienating the Kent community. At some point I would imagine that the Kent powered cars will compete in a historic series leaving the more modern power plant to the pro and club series. This I believe is inevitable and something that should happen sooner than later.

The series seems to have rejuvenated the class to the point that some 30+ cars are on the grid for every race. Castle Combe has tried to create a similar approach with just the Duratec but it hasn't seemed to have hit a note with the competitors.

It would be great to see a series where the local guy could still race with the pros for a few races a year like it had in the past when the Kent was still in the pro series. This would increase the fields and draw more spectators. Everyone likes to root for the local guy who is racing with the big boys.

Of even the Mazda powered cars of the "new" USF2000 series. The series struggled for the first couple of seasons with only 10-12 cars + 3-4 National (Ford powered) cars. This year they have a giant field. Much like the F1600 Formula F class you mentioned.

[JNWRF01]

The US has gone the right way.. space for the kents and new engine to co-exist - and gradually people upgrade their mottors. And the progression to USF2000 (which is basically a RF99 chassis) is logical from there.

So really - just wind the clock back to the mid 1980s

[Mathias]

I'm not sure about the US F2000 formula... by adding wings to the cars, don't they defeat the purpose of FFord being a series that hones open-wheel race-craft without worrying about aerodynamics? I mean, there are surely enough junior level slicks and wings categories aren't there?

I'm not saying they've got it right with EcoBoost, of course.

[HaydenFan]

Originally Posted by Mathias

I'm not sure about the US F2000 formula... by adding wings to the cars, don't they defeat the purpose of FFord being a series that hones open-wheel race-craft without worrying about aerodynamics? I mean, there are surely enough junior level slicks and wings categories aren't there?

I'm not saying they've got it right with EcoBoost, of course.

But that concept is dead. Every level of single seater racing (well, all racing today) is about aero. So whether you want your career to end up in touring cars or Formula One, you need to get an understanding from day one of aero.

Your second remark, about there being too many series is something we all know, even the people in the different series. In Europe, when Formula BMW died, Formula Abarth and Formula ADAC came in to take hold of the rung below Formula Renault. I just think Formula Ford's resistance to change is why they are where they are now. And the EcoBoost idea has raised the cost to all what the other series at the rung where, but it did not bring to the series what people wanted.

[Flavio Galtieri]

Originally Posted by HaydenFan

But that concept is dead. Every level of single seater racing (well, all racing today) is about aero. So whether you want your career to end up in touring cars or Formula One, you need to get an understanding from day one of aero.

Well you certainly need a good understanding of aero as a driver to progress through the ranks but how much aero does a FBMW actually have? How much would an ecoboost with wings have an what lap time improvement would the aero bring?

Are you sure it's not just fashion at these lower levels? Given the choice little Johnny is going to ask Dad to rent him a car with wings isn't he? Because that's what racing cars look like these days isn't it?

I would have thought at the lower rung of the ladder more laptime will still be found in the driver technique and mechanical setup than fiddling with wing angles. I'm happy to be proved wrong though!

[bella]

here's an interesting one that i noticed the other day. out of the fr3.5 field, 3 of the most promising serious talents - kevin magnussen, marco sorensen and richie stanaway - have at least one seasons experience in fford cars. all have f3, the latter 2 raced against each other. they're all under 22 and all 3 have 4-5 years car racing experience each.

i think those 3 alone are a fantastic advert for how fford and f3 help to get the most from a young driver.

as you were

[Peter Cammish]

FF is well worth doing and people should not be put off by no wings, if you can drive you can drive ask Nick Tandy, Nathan Freke etc, FF can be done on a decent budget and from that deals are available at higher level in all sorts of racing and for most drivers reality is the key.

[HaydenFan]

Originally Posted by Flavio Galtieri

Are you sure it's not just fashion at these lower levels? Given the choice little Johnny is going to ask Dad to rent him a car with wings isn't he? Because that's what racing cars look like these days isn't it?

Originally Posted by Peter Cammish

FF is well worth doing and people should not be put off by no wings, if you can drive you can drive ask Nick Tandy, Nathan Freke etc, FF can be done on a decent budget and from that deals are available at higher level in all sorts of racing and for most drivers reality is the key.

But that is it. It can be done on a relatively inexpensive (for motorsport) budget, but little Johnny wants the cars with the wings. Hence why he went to Formula Renault, or somewhere other than Formula Ford.

[Go_For_Pole]

Originally Posted by bella

here's an interesting one that i noticed the other day. out of the fr3.5 field, 3 of the most promising serious talents - kevin magnussen, marco sorensen and richie stanaway - have at least one seasons experience in fford cars. all have f3, the latter 2 raced against each other. they're all under 22 and all 3 have 4-5 years car racing experience each.

i think those 3 alone are a fantastic advert for how fford and f3 help to get the most from a young driver.

as you were

... and Frijns who has more points than all of them has not bothered with FF or F3 so I take it we have not seen most of him? Come on, really. The grooming of a young driver is hardly a matter of car type.

[bella]

frijns hasn't had a car failure yet (er, i don't think). but that's not the point - the point is that fford is important and if a driver doesn't do it he's worse off than if he did.

exaggeration? probably not, no.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by bella

frijns hasn't had a car failure yet (er, i don't think). but that's not the point - the point is that fford is important and if a driver doesn't do it he's worse off than if he did.

exaggeration? probably not, no.

In the past that's certainly been the case, to a lesser extent recently, however the title of this thread is Formula Ford 2012 aka Ecoboost... and can we hand on heart say that this iteration of the formula will have the same relevance as it's predecessors ?

[bella]

well, i suspect that's a question for those who have had a go in it, those who have ran one, and those who have driven one perhaps - is it still relevant in the way it has been historically, even if there's hardly any of 'em?

[brakedisc]

First of all it is good to see that there are still folk interested in the Formula. The thread had been dead for weeks before I posted.

My thoughts are that it is all over. Ford, or more precisely their representatives have got it wrong with this new formula. The number of cars out this year back this up despite certain teams getting incentives and one chassis manufacturer a helping hand by getting the Ford car order. The latest move to introduce wings to spice things up is another desperate move to try and get them out of this mess. It will not work because there is no future for a class that has no stability in rules or mass numbers of cars which are difficult to run and are over priced.

For me it went wrong when they listened to the teams rather than the father and son brigade. FF should have a place on every drivers CV and in the past it did. Ford had a wonderful chance to regain their position as number one in the junior formula but got it wrong. Instead of a cheap formula using mainstream Ford components we ended up with rules that produced this overpriced car that no one wants. Perhaps the lessen will be learned and they will have another go but I suspect it will not be long till it is all over and the Formula Ford class will be just a memory.