Force India 2012 - Hulkenberg in, Sutil out

[TF110]

Lots of champions in the past were the same way. You don't know until the position is given to you. And by that logic, Glock should be winning races, as well as Grosjean, and countless other GP2 F3 wonders. But where are they at now? Junk teams and out of F1.

[maximus]

Grosjean's in the second Lotus seat.

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by TF110

We never know until he gets that top team drive. Kimi needed a Mac to get wins, Alonso a Renault, Button a Brawn/Mac... where were they in mediocre teams? Not near the front. If Sutil's level is even at Webber's or Massa's, it's enough for race wins as those two have demonstrated. If you put a midfielder in the RB7 they'd be a top 5 contender. I feel at least.

I would agree with you.
While the level those like Vettel, Hamilton, Webber, Button , Alonso et al operate at is high, they live with the best teams in the moment. Webber was nowhere in the williams but was mega in 2010.
Barrichello was able to take the Ferrari around quickly enough to beat Schumacher (when he was allowed to).

The car is far more important today, more than it has ever been, so while I have respect for those in the top teams I am not inclined to rubbish those running at the back. Kovalainen was able to run close to hamilton when he was at Mclaren and is a GP winner.... but not in a Team Lotus/Caterham.

Likewise Glock was almost about to start knocking on the door of a win at Toyota but never in a Virgin/Marussia.

[Marbot]

Indeed. There isn't five seconds of lap time difference among the current crop of drivers, but there certainly is amongst the current crop of cars. Put them all in the same car, and you might find a whole second between them.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Marbot

Indeed. There isn't five seconds of lap time difference among the current crop of drivers, but there certainly is amongst the current crop of cars. Put them all in the same car, and you might find a whole second between them.

Maybe, but quite a few times last season we saw Alonso, Vettel, Rosberg lapping more than a second a lap quicker than their respective teammates (sometimes nearly two seconds) both in qualy and in a race, so would that mean that they would do the same to everyone else if all were in the same equipment?

[JeremySmith]

Boy that is a great question..

[Hawkwood]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Maybe, but quite a few times last season we saw Alonso, Vettel, Rosberg lapping more than a second a lap quicker than their respective teammates (sometimes nearly two seconds) both in qualy and in a race, so would that mean that they would do the same to everyone else if all were in the same equipment?

Not necessarily, while those guys were undoubtabley faster than their teammates last year that figure of 1-2 seconds 'at times' last year takes away the probability that their teammates were having a bad day while at the same time Alsonso (for example) may have been at 100%.
It just shows that as well as Vettel and Alonso being at least a little faster, their teammates are also more inconsistent.

But until we get everyone in the same car of a period of time, we'll never know how good everyone is in relation to each other.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by Ostrogothicus

But until we get everyone in the same car of a period of time, we'll never know how good everyone is in relation to each other.

But that never has had, or never will happen. But what has happened throughout F1 history is the better drivers have gone to the better teams, then the better, faster of the pairing in those top teams have won the title.

[Hawkwood]

Originally Posted by Mr V

But that never has had, or never will happen. But what has happened throughout F1 history is the better drivers have gone to the better teams, then the better, faster of the pairing in those top teams have won the title.

I hope it doesn't happen, when we want spec formulas we watch GP2 or IndyCar.
And yes, true

[Marbot]

Indeed. F1 uses the 'cream rising to the top' method of sorting the best from the rest. It's not to everyone's liking, but it does work if you accept that it's often being in the right place at the right time with the right contract that means you get to be WDC.

[tux]

Sutil is now in a Ferrari BTW.