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Old 14 Jul 2009, 11:20 (Ref:2501481)   #251
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Originally Posted by Skid Scarborough View Post
I'm fairly sure it was John Watson
Yes you got it Skid, top bit of trivia mastering there!!

Going back to the 80 highlights slartibartfast posted for us, and a couple of things about Capri's stood out.

I couldn't remember how quick they were, even for the time, compared with what we have to put up with at that level nowadays? Makes me think even more that the onset of the Group A regs that did for them more than anything else....

As for the action in the footage:

We had a nice coming to a standstill shot of Charles Sawyer-Hoare's ex Brian Muir Mk2/3 at Thruxton. Yogi had actually started the season with it before jumping to the PMG Rover and selling his Capri I think?

David Brodie's one off in the second Woodman car (latterly sold to Nicholson) and doing well until going off at Paddock in the Brands GP supporter.

Graham Goode's lurid green car.

Rad Dougall's star performance in the Toleman entered (nee TWR) car at Brands. That car looked a bit, well, odd to say the least. I'm sure it was still effectively in Mk2 trim with the exception of the headlights??!! It was up for sale along with a couple of RX7's come the end of the season, 'complete with current spec C+C suspension' presumably meaning CC suspension.

I'm wondering if that car was in fact Tom's car from a few years earlier, something we touched on a few pages back? The mainly silver/horizontal stripes livery suggests it could've been.

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Old 14 Jul 2009, 20:05 (Ref:2501821)   #252
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Good shout Skid.
Aslo, I'm sure Skid can confirm Dave Purley dronve David "Jess" Yates Prod Saloon Capri several times in the early '80s, including one Willhire.
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Old 15 Jul 2009, 17:52 (Ref:2502379)   #253
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Hello

Hello, as i have been a lifelong Capri fan and sometime racer of the old beasts,thought i might as well join you with your quest for information.
The CC built cars while being arguably the most succesfull during the GP1
period have also created a few mysteries.Finding 2nd/3rd and beyond owners or drivers is quite difficult, but as you are proving,not impossible.The begining of the line also intrigues me.Firstly was Gordon Spices 1977 championship car the first built at Kirbymoorside by CC?
I believe previous Capris run by Spice and tended by Clarke & Cook were
pre-CC,i.e.Wisharts.Around this time, 1977/78, another question linked to
Ade Vickers earlier post about the Jeff Allam car,Nu-Luxe Foam/BP, i think this was originally Stuart Pattersons who shared long distance races with Allam in early 1978, and sometimes driven in 1977 by Phil Dowsett.
Not sure this was a CC build,it was a Mk11 originally.By the Brands GP support( which Allam won well) he was driving a Mk3,again unsure of origin. Sorry if i have gone over any old ground,i am a bit new to this, but the subject matter fascinates me as i was present at many GP1 races through 1970s-1982 and am very fond of the era.
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Old 15 Jul 2009, 19:19 (Ref:2502424)   #254
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Warm welcome Nick, good to have on board a further person who might be able to add to the work in progress!!

Yes you're right about Wishart's doing Spice's earlier cars; Mk1's as well as 2's I think? This is something I wasn't aware of until a couple of years ago. Wishart's was effectively like an 'RS' dealer or something wasn't it? Sort of car sales with a racing sideline, equivalent to Brooklyn's later on I would imagine?

Revealingly, Gordon reckons (in the recent book) that he was one of the movers behind CC starting up in 1977....Significant indded considering the success at Spa and all the Tricentrol wins he had with the red cars that CC built for him.

Again you raise good questions about the likely start date for CC chassis builds, something we have queried but not yet confirmed.

If the first Spice car, a Mk2, was a CC car; then Jeff Allam's '78 car probably was as well. Same for the Colin Vandervell/Gerry Marshall Triplex car. It's likely that a fair few Mk2's were given Mk3 cosmetics sometime in 1978 meaning that the first pukka Mk3 might not have been until a bit later on in the number sequence. We'll get to know more sometime I guess!

I suppose that to begin with there was only a select number of customers in 1977, Spice and one or two other's? so by the time the MK3 was launched, CC may only have built a handful of Mk2's, 3,4 cars maybe? This would likely mean that the first proper Mk3 still has a relatively 'low' single digit CC chassis number, CC5/6 onwards perhaps?

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Old 15 Jul 2009, 21:03 (Ref:2502474)   #255
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I think Allam's car was a Mk3 plus, Spa '78 was Dad and Jeff Allam but the reserve driver was Stuart Patterson and I think he did drive but it was definitely a two-driver team - not sure how that worked?!
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Old 16 Jul 2009, 05:07 (Ref:2502566)   #256
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OK,

Thanks to Frank De Jong you can see the last of the Wisharts Capris, with Gordy and Pete Clark. They finished first in class (Gp1) and fifth overall.

http://homepage.mac.com/frank_de_jon...976%20Spa.html

And a pic from Racing Sports Cars.

http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-07-25-021.jpg

Welcome Nick.
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Old 17 Jul 2009, 14:05 (Ref:2503309)   #257
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Just a thought but didn't Dave Cook work for Wisharts and then left to set up CC Racing supported by Gordon Spice?
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Old 17 Jul 2009, 14:15 (Ref:2503314)   #258
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Just a thought but didn't Dave Cook work for Wisharts and then left to set up CC Racing supported by Gordon Spice?
That is correct Peter. (Well, I'm sure that's what's said in the Life of Spice book anyway).
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Old 17 Jul 2009, 14:36 (Ref:2503321)   #259
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Ah yes, I hadn't cottoned on to that part. So Dave Cook was the engineering brains and Gordon Spice and Pete Clark provided the initial outlay and management experience, is that right?
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Old 17 Jul 2009, 14:41 (Ref:2503322)   #260
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I think so, but my copy of the book is about 3000miles away!
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Old 17 Jul 2009, 14:47 (Ref:2503326)   #261
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Ha ha that's a blow, and mine is buried somewhere in a box labelled 'shift stuff and make space for a baby.'

Going from memory, in the book Gordon doesn't exactly say what he did other than he helped them set it up, so that could mean financial input or business experience?
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Old 18 Jul 2009, 14:11 (Ref:2503799)   #262
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I think Allam's car was a Mk3 plus, Spa '78 was Dad and Jeff Allam but the reserve driver was Stuart Patterson and I think he did drive but it was definitely a two-driver team - not sure how that worked?!
Spa was a 4-hr endurance race, wasn't it? With a compulsory driver change...

I have the original Spa engine for the Allam car (i.e. my car... CC3); it's been abused, sadly, but I think it may be possible to re-build back to decent condition.

The Spa engines had GA blocks (not sure about the rest of the time?), but weren't the full quad overhead cam GA spec, using the standard single-cam with pushrods.

All IIRC, I'm afraid.



Does anyone know if there's any chassis differences between the Mk2 & Mk3 which would definitively prove (or disprove) my belief that CC3 was originally a Mk2? Unfortunately, the addition of a bodykit rules out any bodywork differences; similarly I have a fibreglass bonnet/bootlid, so those can't be checked. The grille and lights are all Mk3, and I don't have a front bumper...
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Old 18 Jul 2009, 16:21 (Ref:2503814)   #263
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The top of the inner front wings is different and also a bit shorter than the Mk3.
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Old 18 Jul 2009, 19:07 (Ref:2503874)   #264
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[QUOTE=AdeV;2503799]Spa was a 4-hr endurance race, wasn't it? With a compulsory driver change...
[QUOTE]

Add a 2 in-front of it, it was 24 hours!!
I don't know the exact differences but if you speak to someone like Roger Dowson he'll be able to tell you.
Otherwise I'm sure Mr Mallett's suggestion might be best.
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Old 20 Jul 2009, 21:33 (Ref:2505103)   #265
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This is going off the C&C capri thread a bit but Gregor was asking about David Purley driving Jess Yates' Capri. That car was VVW2W, was one of the first 2.8s' and was Fords press car which Jess brought out in the latter part of '82 in Production Saloons. He raced it in '83 and David Purley did in fact do a couple of sprint races ( Brands and Oulton I think ) in order to do the Willhire 24hours that year with Jess and Alan Minshaw. (Can't remember the result ) At the end of "84 I then bought the car from Jess and campaigned it in both the 1985 BARC and BRSCC prod saloon championships where it ran in red and white Letchworth Roofing livery. At the end of '86 I sold it and it ended up in Slick 50 road saloons.
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Old 20 Jul 2009, 22:18 (Ref:2505127)   #266
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Hey Skid I thought that you had disappeared of the face of the earth, or are you racing for the Atco team this year
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Old 21 Jul 2009, 05:51 (Ref:2505217)   #267
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Hi Gordon. Haven't disappeared at all. Hopefully see you at Spa in September
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Old 21 Jul 2009, 08:12 (Ref:2505257)   #268
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http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...112274&page=41
I'm afraid not, I've had to take a back seat, but I might go down to watch so you boys can show me how its done
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Old 21 Jul 2009, 08:44 (Ref:2505279)   #269
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This is going off the C&C capri thread a bit but Gregor was asking about David Purley driving Jess Yates' Capri. That car was VVW2W, was one of the first 2.8s' and was Fords press car which Jess brought out in the latter part of '82 in Production Saloons. He raced it in '83 and David Purley did in fact do a couple of sprint races ( Brands and Oulton I think ) in order to do the Willhire 24hours that year with Jess and Alan Minshaw. (Can't remember the result ) At the end of "84 I then bought the car from Jess and campaigned it in both the 1985 BARC and BRSCC prod saloon championships where it ran in red and white Letchworth Roofing livery. At the end of '86 I sold it and it ended up in Slick 50 road saloons.
Staying off topic for a mo, I just about remember the car in original guise, was it standard metallic blue or grey originally?

I didn't realise that was the car you ran so well in Uniroyal's etc in 85/86 Skid? When I later saw a 2.8 in road saloons in your red/white colour scheme later I thought it was someone copying it!!

Might have a pic of it somewhere.
Correction copy of post in prodsaloons:
http://tentenths.com/forum/showpost....4&postcount=43

Jess came out for a bit in a white one later in '85? I seem to recall he'd shunted a Capri earlier in the year or something?
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Old 21 Jul 2009, 18:10 (Ref:2505635)   #270
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Thanks for the welcome Chunterer and Peter.I have been digging around at home for more related info.The grey area we have around the CC12-CC15 builds and original owners does intrigue me.Around 1980 we have information previously on the thread to the effect that 17 or so cars had been built up to and including that year.During 1979 Colin Vandervell appeared in a plain white virtually un-sponsored Capri.The only thing i can remember seeing on the car was signwritten front wings, with the AQUABATTEN (spelling?) wording. The car did not appear at all the rounds, but i did see the Mallory round which Vandervell won, a race which started virtually dry but the rain worsened causing mayhem to those who started on slicks.Among the casualties were the Spice team,(Gordon and Chris Craft),Walkinshaws fancied RX7,Allam and Woodman.Vandevell started on inters.,drove a carefull race while others pitted or went off the track
To give an idea of the mixed up result, Tony Lanfranchi in Alan Fosters old
ex-DTV Magnum finished 2nd!.C.V. also finished a good 5th at Silverstone GP support race only 7 seconds behind winner Spice after 20 laps.
The car must have been pretty decent or quite new considering the quality of competition, most of the Silverstone race was a Capri train with 8-10 cars slipstreaming around the old GP track inches apart,closely followed by Marshall (Dolomite) and Walkinshaw (RX7), spoilt when the latter touched Gerry at Club causing a massive shunt,the Dolly almost clearing the debris fencing and knocking big Gerry about badly.
Sorry for the waffle,but this Vandervell Capri may be one of the missing CC builds of the time.Another question is Brian Muirs 1980 car entered by Patrick Motor Sport/Shell.Did PMS build Capris or just run them? Perhaps Muir,PMS with Shell money bought a prepared car from CC?? Just two more to consider that may fill a gap in the history.
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Old 21 Jul 2009, 18:59 (Ref:2505662)   #271
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Good enquiry Nick.

I think Gregor's confirmed that the Vandervell car was the one Gerry also used around the '77/78 time which was indeed CC built. However Gregor also said that Gerry sold the car, when still actually owned by Vandervell.... which teed Colin off somewhat...

Is that right Gregor??

Of course Vandervell may then have sourced another car, depends when the Triplex car was sold but think that was the end of '79?

The Muir car being entered under PMS/Shell is interesting. Muir first raced an SD1 in 1980, but started the year in his old Capri which was i believe originally a Mk2.

'Yogi' had quite close links to Malcolm Gartlan and Ted Grace so i'm guessing that his Capri was built/prep'd by one of those two perhaps? I'm also thinking that the Capri was entered by Martin Thomas/Patrick for the first few races of 1980 whilst they were waiting for the Rover to be finished?
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Old 23 Jul 2009, 12:20 (Ref:2506563)   #272
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Turned something else up, which may not be strictly CC related but is certainly BSCC G1 related....

Frank De Jong's site has some info about the '78 series including a handful of images.

Andy Rouse was out at Oulton in August in a white Mk3 with Carrier Properties backing, starting 2nd and finishing 3rd.

Looking deeper it seems that a Mk2 with the same backing was out earlier in the season in the hands of Lawrie Hickman and a couple of other drivers, which incidentally Peter Mallett has a b&w image of, from Oulton on his own site, Peter has captioned the car as ex Vince Woodman.

I'm wondering if the Mk2 was upgraded to Mk3 spec by the time Andy drove it or whether they were 2 completely different cars?

This also links, in part, back to the post I made about Rouse selling off a white Mk3 which was described as ex Woodman at the end of 1981 or 82.

Could it have been the same car Andy was using 3 or 4 years previously, that we suggested was the one that ended up in rallying and was it originally a CC built car?
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Old 23 Jul 2009, 12:37 (Ref:2506573)   #273
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That pic came out of a Thruxton programme for the 1978 Easter meeting IIRC. Can't check from here. Note to self, must get to grips with website.
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Old 11 Aug 2009, 19:59 (Ref:2519740)   #274
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That pic came out of a Thruxton programme for the 1978 Easter meeting IIRC. Can't check from here. Note to self, must get to grips with website.
Well that caption/pic was good for this thread whatever you decide to do to your site!!

Digging a bit more, the car Rouse ran in '78 was apparently a brand new build that summer, ( well it was when he ran it at the Trans-Europe race on the TT bill) but that doesn't necessarily mean that Rouse or that car was a direct replacement for the MK2 in the pic on Peter's site.

This could well have been a Broadspeed built car rather than CC judging by Andy's relationship with his local firm around that time.
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Old 28 Aug 2009, 20:05 (Ref:2530096)   #275
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Good news!

CC3 has gone to a new home! And her new owner plans to restore her back to her original Jeff Allam condition

Of course, I'm sad to see her go, having owned her for almost exactly 10 years, but she's only going as far as Wigan, for the time being...

I'm passing the new owner details of this thread, so hopefully he'll join up & be asking millions of questions anytime soon
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