Tech Issue Off throttle diffusers banned from Silverstone > - Page 7

Marbot · 10 Jul 2011, 09:47 (Ref:2924450)

Quote:

Originally Posted by wnut

The real reason that the FIA is trying to deal with this embarrassing situation is that they sought to manipulate the championship by "throwing spanners" at RBR. Embarrassingly the spanner seems to have hit some players harder than RBR.

That is just not true. Can you explain why Red Bull seem to be most unhappy about this? After all, it is they that have been hit the hardest.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wnut

They now have more angry people than they intended and as you say have unwittingly given an advantage to Williams.

Not just Williams. Sauber seem to be doing well out of it too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wnut

This would also play out so well in court (SARCASM), it will be interesting to see how the FIA and Whiting extricate themselves from a problem entirely of their own making!

They were asked to react to a developing problem by a team that was going to protest a part that was being used to illegally provide downforce. You will have noticed that most things are not banned unless one team or another draws the attention of something to the FIA. It is not the job of the FIA to go looking for these things during scrutineering.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wnut

The politics for the rest of the season should be more interesting than the racing, which had improved dramatically before the rule change!

Well, let's hope not. Even though it doesn't look likely that we'll get it resolved today.

"I guarantee you there won't be an agreement," says one engineer #BBCF1

phoenix · 10 Jul 2011, 10:10 (Ref:2924461)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marbot

That is just not true. Can you explain why Red Bull seem to be most unhappy about this? After all, it is they that have been hit the hardest.

Presumably because 10% throttle hot-blown (as permitted for the Mercedes and presumably Ferrari engines) is at least 5 times more effective than 10% throttle cold-blown that Renault engines are allowed.

Marbot · 10 Jul 2011, 10:21 (Ref:2924467)

Quote:

Originally Posted by phoenix

Presumably because 10% throttle hot-blown (as permitted for the Mercedes and presumably Ferrari engines) is at least 5 times more effective than 10% throttle cold-blown that Renault engines are allowed.

Indeed.

And it's easy to see why Mercedes and McLaren have lost out, and why Ferrari have been very relaxed about it.

Red Bull seem to have lost very little, despite being hit the hardest. Probably because their car is fundamentally very good anyway. Ferrari are pleased with their upgrades, and together with what they have received from the exhaust blowing changes, have managed to get a bit closer to Red Bull. McLaren, Mercedes and particularly Renault, all seem to have slipped into the clutches of the mid field teams. Which probably gives you an indication of just how much each of them relied on the system being fully operational. And it looks like McLaren's 'blip' at Valencia wasn't just a 'blip' after all.

Marbot · 10 Jul 2011, 10:44 (Ref:2924477)

And as predicted, the teams have 'not' reached an agreement on the blown diffuser rules.

"AUTOSPORT's sources have revealed that Ferrari and the Ferrari-powered Sauber team refused to sign the deal to return to the Valencia specification.

There had been speculation that Cosworth engine user Williams would do likewise, but it is understood to have been in favour of this solution."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/92998

JeremySmith · 10 Jul 2011, 10:48 (Ref:2924478)

Now we see Ferrari and starting to make some noise....

browney · 10 Jul 2011, 11:56 (Ref:2924493)

Aren't the Valencia rules pretty much the rules that they started the season with? What is there to agree to, they have been competing with them all year up until this round after all?

Marbot · 10 Jul 2011, 15:43 (Ref:2924601)

Quote:

Originally Posted by browney

Aren't the Valencia rules pretty much the rules that they started the season with?

No. The Valencia rules say that you must use the map you had in qualifying for the race. And normally the map in qualifying uses much more fuel than the race map per lap.

Quote:

Originally Posted by browney

What is there to agree to, they have been competing with them all year up until this round after all?

Obviously not. Plus they have been introducing even more off throttle blowing during the season. Which is why we have the situation at present.

Marbot · 10 Jul 2011, 16:28 (Ref:2924630)

Finally!

All of the teams have agreed to revert back to the diffuser rule that was used in Valencia.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93016

The Valencia rule was that you couldn't change your qualifying map to a race map after qualifying had finished.

paddy · 10 Jul 2011, 16:33 (Ref:2924633)

Martin Brundle said on commentary that Ferrari hadn't been shouting about this issue because they were pulling strings in the background. It seems that by proposing a return to Valencia settings has meant they have had to shout. Today's result may be a one off, but I'm not so sure. I think they have got what they want. Red Bull will lose some performance, but Mac look stuffed.

**bjohnsonsmith** · 10 Jul 2011, 16:36 (Ref:2924635)

Quote:

Originally Posted by paddy

Martin Brundle said on commentary that Ferrari hadn't been shouting about this issue because they were pulling strings in the background. It seems that by proposing a return to Valencia settings has meant they have had to shout. Today's result may be a one off, but I'm not so sure. I think they have got what they want. Red Bull will lose some performance, but Mac look stuffed.

It's given Ferrari a 1st on the podium and bought them some time to improve the car.

paddy · 10 Jul 2011, 17:37 (Ref:2924661)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

It's given Ferrari a 1st on the podium and bought them some time to improve the car.

It really smacks of a stitch up to me. Ferrari really do get what they want don't they.

**bjohnsonsmith** · 10 Jul 2011, 18:40 (Ref:2924682)

Quote:

Originally Posted by paddy

It really smacks of a stitch up to me. Ferrari really do get what they want don't they.

I can see why it could be interpreted like that.

gttouring · 11 Jul 2011, 15:57 (Ref:2925136)

Well all seen and told redbull were still flatout fastest. ferrari has been improvinng I don't se much ofanissue renault has taken it hard though.

wnut · 11 Jul 2011, 23:28 (Ref:2925347)

Quote:

Originally Posted by gttouring

Well all seen and told redbull were still flatout fastest. ferrari has been improvinng I don't se much ofanissue renault has taken it hard though.

Fastest Laps

1 Alonso 1:34.908
2 Massa 1:35.474
3 Vettel 1:35.565
4 Webber 1:35.665
5 Hamo 1:36.180
6 Petrov 1:36.308
7 Perez 1:36.656
8 Barrichello 1:36.733

No advantage to Ferrari?

Marbot · 13 Jul 2011, 12:24 (Ref:2925998)

Adam Parr (Williams) has no sympathy for teams most affected by rule changes.

He hit out at teams who protested the likes of Williams in 2009 because of the double diffusers used that year.

"It's irrelevant. I have no sympathy," he said. "It really annoys me that I sat in Paris, in the Court of Appeal, with certain teams saying 'these cars are dangerously fast.' Some plonker put in his affidavit, 'this car is dangerously fast.'

"This is a person who is famous for making fast cars, continued to make fast cars and I've never heard such drivel. Anyway, my point is this: do they say 'well, poor old Williams and Toyota and Brawn, they've spent all this money developing the double diffuser, their whole car is built around it, we must let them have it for 2009 and then we'll change it? Like hell they did.

"They protested in Melbourne, they protested us in Malaysia and then they went to court in Paris. So it's bull***t. There's a couple of things that really irritate me and rank hypocrisy is one of them."

I think that he has a point there.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93059

wnut · 14 Jul 2011, 05:39 (Ref:2926340)

Williams would however see no rank hypocrisy in preventing the new teams running customer cars given that Williams ran customer cars for the first few years of its existance!

Teretonga · 14 Jul 2011, 06:01 (Ref:2926342)

Quote:

Originally Posted by wnut

Williams would however see no rank hypocrisy in preventing the new teams running customer cars given that Williams ran customer cars for the first few years of its existance!

You are correct if you mean Frank ran customer cars in 1969 Brabham, 1970 de Tomaso, 1971 March.

However the present incarnation, Williams Grand Prix Engineering, was founded in 1978 and built all its own cars.

Marbot · 14 Jul 2011, 10:09 (Ref:2926444)

Indeed. The rules have changed a bit since Williams borrowed other peoples cars.

Marbot · 14 Jul 2011, 12:38 (Ref:2926540)

The FIA issues a press release explaining its reasons for the blown diffuser rule changes.

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre...diffusers.aspx

browney · 15 Jul 2011, 07:56 (Ref:2926943)

So the FIA decided to act, rather than it being due to another team wanting to protest and they acted because they thought that it was 'questionable' not necessarily illegal.

wnut · 15 Jul 2011, 23:29 (Ref:2927256)

Quote:

Originally Posted by wnut

The real reason that the FIA is trying to deal with this embarrassing situation is that they sought to manipulate the championship by "throwing spanners" at RBR.
.......

This would also play out so well in court (SARCASM), it will be interesting to see how the FIA and Whiting extricate themselves from a problem entirely of their own making!

.....

So the FIA was off on its own attempting to manipulate the Championship!

Poor very poor!

**bjohnsonsmith** · 16 Jul 2011, 00:26 (Ref:2927275)

Quote:

Originally Posted by wnut

So the FIA was off on its own attempting to manipulate the Championship!

Poor very poor!

A conflict of interest?

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