Sebring 2010?

[mazda1]

Not looking good. No Audi, no Acura LMP1, 1 Dyson, a new weird category? I don't know. Maybe Jean Alesi will show up with Rissi and give the race a boost!

[1969MGCGTdriver]

This might be the first time in a decade that I don't make the trip. Just sad.

[Canada ALMS fan]

With no Audi and a weak looking grid I have made the gut wrenching decision not to go. Hopefully there are some good European entries though. Doing the Canadian GP instead with those racing dollars. I will be at Petit FOR SURE and possibly Laguna Seca.

[ucfquattroguy]

I'm with MGCGT driver on that one... I've been going every year since '03 and this *might* be the first I don't attend. Pretty bad considering I'm just 2hrs drive away (Orlando).

[1969MGCGTdriver]

if i change my mind and do go, my middle finger is going to get sore from saluting the pugs every time they pass by.

ucf, do you post on audizine?

[fieldodreams79]

they didn't have the race in 1974 and a few hundred people showed anyways to, um, drink cold beverages, so i think there will be a few people to see things a bit different than you chaps.

but i feel ya and hopefully this is merely a bump in the road of the trip of sportscars. and i think the attendance will be lacking due to several circumstances.

i'm at PLM regardless. i think i can muster up enough money and effort to make the 40 minute trip to RoadATL.

[skycafe]

Welcome ucfquattorguy!


robert

[Acid09]

Originally Posted by 1969MGCGTdriver

if i change my mind and do go, my middle finger is going to get sore from saluting the pugs every time they pass by.

Wow, that's mature. Would you care to explain why Peugeot is to blame for any of the problems with next year's event? Some people....

In fact, we can be glad if they go as it would be a reason to watch the race at least. I don't think they will as it is a pointless excersise with Audi being absent.

Personally, I´m very sad about this situation. Sebring was always the "real" start into the endurance racing year as the Rolex 24 always feels a bit seperated from everything.

But the way it looks now, the grid will be very weak...a real shame.

[mazda1]

Originally Posted by Acid09

Wow, that's mature. Would you care to explain why Peugeot is to blame for any of the problems with next year's event? Some people....

In fact, we can be glad if they go as it would be a reason to watch the race at least. I don't think they will as it is a pointless excersise with Audi being absent.

Personally, I´m very sad about this situation. Sebring was always the "real" start into the endurance racing year as the Rolex 24 always feels a bit seperated from everything.

But the way it looks now, the grid will be very weak...a real shame.

Peugeot is the main reason Audi is not going to Sebring in 2010. They cry about Audi running their R15+, so Audi can't go. I did not know Peugeot ran the show until today. ALMS "For the fans" for the fans my ass!!!! For the French and the ACO yes, but not for us.

[Acid09]

Ahh I see .... it's some anti-France thing going on here.

Why is it Peugeot's fault that Audi isn't able to have their car ready in time? They manage to get their car ready, why would they accept to be beaten by a car that is not wihtin the ruels?

Plus, Audi's behaviour arround the whole illegal-front affair at Le Mans has probably not helped either. If you tick others off, you can't expect to call in favours later.

I fully understand Peugeot's decision and to be honest, I think it's a pretty lame excuse. Audi just doesn't want to do Sebring. Still almost four months until the event, why can't they have the car ready in time? It's just a modification after all..

[The359]

Audi wasn't planning to run the R15+ at Sebring, they were planning on running a modified R15 which would still technically be illegal.

[mazda1]

Originally Posted by Acid09

Ahh I see .... it's some anti-France thing going on here.

Why is it Peugeot's fault that Audi isn't able to have their car ready in time? They manage to get their car ready, why would they accept to be beaten by a car that is not wihtin the ruels?

Plus, Audi's behaviour arround the whole illegal-front affair at Le Mans has probably not helped either. If you tick others off, you can't expect to call in favours later.

I fully understand Peugeot's decision and to be honest, I think it's a pretty lame excuse. Audi just doesn't want to do Sebring. Still almost four months until the event, why can't they have the car ready in time? It's just a modification after all..

Just a modification after all? If you were the guy running the Audi racing program, they would have the R35 out by now!! It's not very difficult to understand. Peugeot wants to win Sebring, and the only way to do it is running without Audi. At the end of the day people will always remember who won, not why they won. They almost got it this year, they should come and fight with Audi next year. As a manufacturer I will like to win beating some one important, not just some private teams, but I guess that's the only way Peugeot's can do it! There are many ways to balance the competition, lets find one and lets have a race!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[The359]

Originally Posted by mazda1

Just a modification after all? If you were the guy running the Audi racing program, they would have the R35 out by now!! It's not very difficult to understand. Peugeot wants to win Sebring, and the only way to do it is running without Audi. At the end of the day people will always remember who won, not why they won. They almost got it this year, they should come and fight with Audi next year. As a manufacturer I will like to win beating some one important, not just some private teams, but I guess that's the only way Peugeot's can do it! There are many ways to balance the competition, lets find one and lets have a race!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Considering Peugeot's long advertising campaign about their record in LMS in 2008 about beating Audi, I highly doubt Peugeot wants to win races by not allowing Audi to compete.

[Acid09]

Yes, Peugeot is afraid to fight Audi, that's why they started their LMP programme after all.

And Audi was were when Peugeot absolutely dominated this year`s Le Mans 24 hours? The way I remember it, they were on track... and in no shape, way or form able to beat Peugeot.

So please stop all this conspiracy nonsene. Peugeot is most certainly not afraid to race Audi, they started their programme to beat them in the first place.

And about the R15+: It's just a modification, like it or not. I have problems to believe that Audi Sport can't update the car in four months, F1 teams build completely new cars in the same time frame...and the resources don't differ too much.

[mazda1]

Originally Posted by Acid09

Yes, Peugeot is afraid to fight Audi, that's why they started their LMP programme after all.

And Audi was were when Peugeot absolutely dominated this year`s Le Mans 24 hours? The way I remember it, they were on track... and in no shape, way or form able to beat Peugeot.

So please stop all this conspiracy nonsene. Peugeot is most certainly not afraid to race Audi, they started their programme to beat them in the first place.

And about the R15+: It's just a modification, like it or not. I have problems to believe that Audi Sport can't update the car in four months, F1 teams build completely new cars in the same time frame...and the resources don't differ too much.

Like I said, Lets balance the cars and lets have a race!!!!!!!! Also, F1 teams are their own manufacturer, so yes they can build a new car very quick. Dallara makes the cars for Audi, not Audi so it does take a little longer, who cares anyways!!! come to Sebring and beat Audi, that's what is all about!! Like you said they won at lemans, but it is a different game at Sebring so, bring it on and stop crying Peugeot!!!!

[Acid09]

Where exaclty is Peugeot crying? All the crying I can hear right now comes from the Audi side of things...

[fiend540]

This isn't an issue of Audi's or Peugeot's doing, it all boils to the ACO's fault. They homologated the r15, let it race, tell audi to make changes, let it race again, competitors ***** and want rule clarification, ACO twiddles there thumbs and takes what seems like an abnormal length of time to come out with the 2011 rules and this mess is what you end up with. You can't blame Peugeot for not wanting Audi to race a non 2010 compliant car and you can't blame Audi for deciding that they aren't able to update the r15 in time for Sebring come March. The argument that Peugeot can do it, so Audi should be able to as well is pretty near sighted, It seems pretty clear that the new rules affect the r15 more so than the 908. Either way it is a shame Audi won't be back this year, such is life I guess.

[The359]

We do have a balance, they're called the rules. Audi built a rule bending car, it's their own fault for not being able to easily adapt to the new rules. I fail to see how Sebring is a different game from Le Mans.

And Dallara makes the tubs. There's more to a race car than the tubs. And it would be difficult to "just balance the cars" when there is no refined Audi yet.

[johntt]

2010 is going to be an odd year for LMPs becauase of the rules change coming in 2011.

And a lot of people are forgetting that GT2 is going to be a very strong category with Porsche, Ferrari, BMW and Corvette being in contention for the win.

[chernaudi]

And how quick do we forget that the Pug bent the rules, too-remember "door-gate", and the 908 has a symmetical tuning vane "wing" between the nose and the pontoon fender-they're just as guilty as anyone else.

The ACO writes crappy rules with muddy wording, and Audi took advantage of it, and Peugeot instead of seeing what they could do about it on their own, complained to the ACO and IMSA, and was shot down every time in '09.

Now the ACO has written rules to placate Peugeot, but I doubt that IMSA is happy that the French times 1.5(the rules makers and Peugeot) has peed on their Sebring parade, though it seems that the ACO and IMSA were willing to let Audi run a hybrid 2009/10 R15, but Peugeot complained-let's just hope that if IMSA and the ACO grant Audi a waiver for Sebring that Peugeot's appeal doesn't make it to Todt if he has any Peugeot sympathies left, or that the FIA senate overrules the ex-Peugeot man.

Worse comes to worse, the LMP2 cars can keep up with the Pugs and for the vengeful ones out there, they'll prang a couple of tubs at Sebring-they can't have all that many left. And the Peugeot guys better be weary of "gentleman" drivers, the GTC and LMPC cars for that reason, as I don't think they can afford to have a 2008 happen to them again

[ubrben]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

And how quick do we forget that the Pug bent the rules, too-remember "door-gate", and the 908 has a symmetical tuning vane "wing" between the nose and the pontoon fender-they're just as guilty as anyone else.

The ACO writes crappy rules with muddy wording, and Audi took advantage of it, and Peugeot instead of seeing what they could do about it on their own, complained to the ACO and IMSA, and was shot down every time in '09.

Now the ACO has written rules to placate Peugeot, but I doubt that IMSA is happy that the French times 1.5(the rules makers and Peugeot) has peed on their Sebring parade, though it seems that the ACO and IMSA were willing to let Audi run a hybrid 2009/10 R15, but Peugeot complained-let's just hope that if IMSA and the ACO grant Audi a waiver for Sebring that Peugeot's appeal doesn't make it to Todt if he has any Peugeot sympathies left, or that the FIA senate overrules the ex-Peugeot man.

Worse comes to worse, the LMP2 cars can keep up with the Pugs and for the vengeful ones out there, they'll prang a couple of tubs at Sebring-they can't have all that many left. And the Peugeot guys better be weary of "gentleman" drivers, the GTC and LMPC cars for that reason, as I don't think they can afford to have a 2008 happen to them again

Spot on. It was obvious the Audi was legal based on the clarification issued regarding the valance panels on the Porsche RS Spyder.

Peugeot spanked the Audi at Le Mans (low downforce) and Petit (High Downforce) so quite why they want to block them coming to Sebring is beyond me. Surely they'd have the confidence in the 908 to be able to beat the R15 on pace and they'd then have a genuine win.

Anyone who knows how the ACO works knows how political it is. Lets be honest, the only reason we have the diesels at all is that the rules were skewed to allow a diesel more hp than the petrol LMP1s so that Audi and Peugeot would come and play in the first place.

Being dogmatic about things now is unfortunate. As I understand it Peugeot were on the verge of walking away if Audi weren't forced to change the R15. It's not anti-French to say this - they made a threat and got the response they wanted.

Ben

[merlot brougham]

I'm floored at some of the naivete around here. Do you REALLY think Peugeot BLOCKED Audi from participating at Sebring? Who makes the rules after all? Last I checked it was the ACO in concert with IMSA. I can't believe that people think that Audi can't get a car ready with 3 MONTHS of lead time. They can come up with new aero set ups BETWEEN RACES and get it tested and installed.

The whole "we don't have time because of the rules" excuse is nonsense. If they don't have the budget, then say they don't have the budget. Audi and Peugeot got the rules at the same time, no more excuses. The R15 didn't turn out to be the car Audi thought it would be and they pushed the limits of the rules. Therefore they must do more work to get the car ready.

I bought my Sebring tickets before the announcement was even made. It is times like this that the series needs your support. It is times like this that if the support is still there, it brings more teams in when financial conditions improve. Sebring is a blast in all aspects. Even if the competition isn't the greatest ever I KNOW I will still have a great time. AND I already bought Mid-Ohio and PLM tickets. People need to step up and support the stuff they love or they may blink and it's all gone.

[ucfquattroguy]

Originally Posted by 1969MGCGTdriver

if i change my mind and do go, my middle finger is going to get sore from saluting the pugs every time they pass by.

ucf, do you post on audizine?

Yes sir... Also on Quattroworld as "AutoXJunkie".

Thanks for the welcome. I've been lurking around these parts for several months now.

[ubrben]

Originally Posted by merlot brougham

I'm floored at some of the naivete around here. Do you REALLY think Peugeot BLOCKED Audi from participating at Sebring? Who makes the rules after all? Last I checked it was the ACO in concert with IMSA. I can't believe that people think that Audi can't get a car ready with 3 MONTHS of lead time. They can come up with new aero set ups BETWEEN RACES and get it tested and installed.

The whole "we don't have time because of the rules" excuse is nonsense. If they don't have the budget, then say they don't have the budget. Audi and Peugeot got the rules at the same time, no more excuses. The R15 didn't turn out to be the car Audi thought it would be and they pushed the limits of the rules. Therefore they must do more work to get the car ready.

I bought my Sebring tickets before the announcement was even made. It is times like this that the series needs your support. It is times like this that if the support is still there, it brings more teams in when financial conditions improve. Sebring is a blast in all aspects. Even if the competition isn't the greatest ever I KNOW I will still have a great time. AND I already bought Mid-Ohio and PLM tickets. People need to step up and support the stuff they love or they may blink and it's all gone.

I don't think I'm being naive, but regardless of that your last paragraph is very good.

Ben

[merlot brougham]

Originally Posted by ubrben

I don't think I'm being naive, but regardless of that your last paragraph is very good.

Ben

Perhaps I rambled a bit and got away from my point. The entire krux of my statement was meant to be that if Audi felt the need to be at Sebring, they would be there. Period. Either it's a money thing or they don't feel it is necessary. In other words, no one made the decision for them.

Regardless, thanks.