2025 Rallying

[BertMk2]

With the conclusion of the 2024 WRC season thoughts turn to next year - who's driving where and for how many events?

Toyota
Rovanpera (full season)
Evans (full season)
Katstuta (full season)
Pajari (full season)
Ogier (part season)

Hyundai
Neuville (full season)
Tanak (full season)
Car 3 - Formeaux? / Sordo? / Mikkelsen? / Lappi?
Car 4 (not confirmed but discussed)

The fourth Hyundai hasn't been confirmed yet but looks likely based on comments by the team. Formeaux has been linked with the 3rd seat so looks likely. The 4th car if it does happen is likely to be a split drive - presumably Sordo/Lappi. Mikkelsen has been mentioned as staying but also there were comments in Japan about it being his last top level event so he could be out. I thought Solberg might have been a possibility but I haven't seen his name linked to a seat anywhere.

M-Sport
Car 1 - Munster?
Car 2 - ??

I've not really heard much about M-Sport for next season - if Formeaux does leave for Hyundai I'd expect them to try and retain Munster for some continuity. Not heard any other names linked with the team though.

[tbtstt]

Four full time cars from Hyundai would be great. Obviously another manufacturer would be best but, in the absence of that, strong numbers from the manufacturers we have is the next best thing.

Really hope that the reduction in cost (with the hybrid gone) might permit M-Sport to run a third car, but perhaps that is wishful thinking there: and of course they need the talent to drive the cars as well.

[BertMk2]

[QUOTE=tbtstt;4236512]Four full time cars from Hyundai would be great. Obviously another manufacturer would be best but, in the absence of that, strong numbers from the manufacturers we have is the next best thing. [QUOTE]

The fourth car looks like it might only be for some events - shame if that's accurate but better than no fourth car at all.

Originally Posted by tbtstt

Really hope that the reduction in cost (with the hybrid gone) might permit M-Sport to run a third car, but perhaps that is wishful thinking there: and of course they need the talent to drive the cars as well.

M-Sport seem to only be talking about two cars - a bit of lunchtime googling suggests they'd like to keep Formeaux (assuming he doesn't go to Hyundai). The other drivers I found mentions of were Munster (as expected), Sesks (has driven the rally1 Puma already), Solberg and Rossel.

I haven't seen anything about any possible privateer entries - but with the hybrid cost/complexity removed could we see some extra Rally1 cars?

[flatlandsman]

You might get one or two, that Greek guy usually does a few events in a Puma still, and there might be one or two, but they will still cost a fortune to lease or buy with zero chance of a result, easier to have a top notch R5 and rally locally.

[ArnageWRC]

I'm not sure much will change - and the WRC will remain the weakest of the major motorsport series.

Lots of things need to change, but seem unlikely to do so.

[BertMk2]

Solberg moves to a Toyota in Rally2 for next season - so that rules him out of a drive at M-Sport.

https://www.wrc.com/a/news/w29039_So...rintsport-move

Also Iron Dames will field a full season crew in Rally2 with Sarah Rumeau and Julie Amblard stepping up from the French rally championships:

https://www.wrc.com/a/news/w29046_Ir...charge-in-WRC2

[AndyS]

So I see the 2027 regulations are out as well as a new points system for 2025. The points system seems better and a bit more understandable.

The new technical regulations for 2027 seem to be heavily focused on reducing costs. Common parts, more durable parts, 10 year regulation cycle, shared/reduced logistics costs, more use of local facilities, less team personnel on site and better connectivity to allow for off site technical backup from back at base.

On the face of it, sounds sensible. Cost cap on the car builds at less than half the cost of the current cars was another one. You'd like to think it would encourage more manufacturers and customer teams to join, but like most others I feel this is only half the job. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, it's the promotion and visibility of the sport that also needs raising. We all know this, so I'm not going to repeat it again.

Going where there are established fan bases, making the cost of hosting an event affordable and reducing the amount of road miles getting between stages are also key for me. I'm all for more stage miles, but keep them in more manageable geographical areas and that will also help reduce costs.

As regards the technical regs, no doubt we'll have plenty slagging them off and predicting the end of the WRC, but personally, like most things, I'll reserve judgement until we actually see how it pans out in 27/28. Slower cars doesn't sound exciting, but those of us who remember the 80's, all thought this when Group B ended and was replaced by Group A. Initially, it was a bit of a come down, but as it progressed it developed into a fantastic era of Rallying.

For me, it's lets see!

[ArnageWRC]

To use an often quoted saying; "the proof of the pudding, will be in the eating..."

However, I just don't think there are the manufacturers out there who are interested in WRC. And certainly not when it's media/ promotion is poor.

I don't have an issue with cars which are a bit slower; the top drivers will look fast in anything, and if we get 10-15 top class cars all going at, then that's good enough for me.

[BertMk2]

There's been some criticism of the new regs from some of the current wrc drivers - they seem to be worried that there won't be a significant difference in performance between the new rally1 and rally2 cars. So on gravel events in particular running a rally2 car (later in the running order) will be beneficial as the rally1 cars will have swept the road - potentially resulting in rally2 cars posting faster times than rally1 cars.

My intial reponse to that would be "earn your money" The top drivers should still be able to make the difference.

I also see that Formeaux has been told he has parity with Tanak and Neuville within Hyundai. Let's see how that works out!

[ArnageWRC]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

There's been some criticism of the new regs from some of the current wrc drivers - they seem to be worried that there won't be a significant difference in performance between the new rally1 and rally2 cars. So on gravel events in particular running a rally2 car (later in the running order) will be beneficial as the rally1 cars will have swept the road - potentially resulting in rally2 cars posting faster times than rally1 cars.

My intial reponse to that would be "earn your money" The top drivers should still be able to make the difference.

Yeah, I think that's a good thing - bring it on. Reminds me a little of the F2 screamers on Tarmac in 1997-99......

I've always thought, that the second class of motorsport series should always be able to win/challenge in certain circumstances.

[tbtstt]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

I also see that Formeaux has been told he has parity with Tanak and Neuville within Hyundai. Let's see how that works out!

Yeah, be interesting to see how that goes. If he is on the same pace as them from the outset then perhaps it is a possibility, but I can't see him being anything other than a supporting act to the other two for this year? (Perhaps that is unfair though)

[BertMk2]

M-Sport sign Josh McErlean for their second seat - didn't see that one coming!

https://www.wrc.com/a/news/w29076_Do...rt-Ford-in-WRC

So that looks like the full Rally1 lineup (unless Hyundai do go for a 4th car). M-Sport really look like they'll be struggling for results - Munster was some way off Formeaux and McErlean has no experience in the car so you'd imagine will take time to get up to speed. Add in the extra Toyota (and possibly Hyundai) and you can't see M-Sport troubling the podium all season.

In WRC2 Citroen has signed up Yohan and Léo Rossel to run full seasons.

[tbtstt]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

So that looks like the full Rally1 lineup (unless Hyundai do go for a 4th car). M-Sport really look like they'll be struggling for results - Munster was some way off Formeaux and McErlean has no experience in the car so you'd imagine will take time to get up to speed. Add in the extra Toyota (and possibly Hyundai) and you can't see M-Sport troubling the podium all season.

I'd really like to see M-Sport claiming podiums again next season but, exactly as you have said, I can't see the proposed driver line up achieving that in 2025.

McErlean is a bit of an unknown for me; I have heard his name and I know he has had some success in WRC2, but that is about it. Seems like it is going to be a very steep learning curve for him. If 2025 can be a productive learning season for him in a Rally1 car than perhaps he could be more of a challenger in 2026?

Very interested to see if the removal of hybrid ends up favouring any one of the teams (and/or if one of the teams adapts the car better to ICE only).

I think 2025 is going to be a Toyota year in Rally1 and Rally2, but perhaps I am jumping the gun a bit with my prediction there.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by tbtstt

I'd really like to see M-Sport claiming podiums again next season but, exactly as you have said, I can't see the proposed driver line up achieving that in 2025.

McErlean is a bit of an unknown for me; I have heard his name and I know he has had some success in WRC2, but that is about it. Seems like it is going to be a very steep learning curve for him. If 2025 can be a productive learning season for him in a Rally1 car than perhaps he could be more of a challenger in 2026?

The problem M-Sport have is retaining the drivers for that second (or subsequent campaign). It seems to be a recurring theme that drivers get a chance with M-Sport then move on to one of the other teams after gaining experience. I suppose without manufacturer backing this is the only way M-Sport can carry on.

Originally Posted by tbtstt

Very interested to see if the removal of hybrid ends up favouring any one of the teams (and/or if one of the teams adapts the car better to ICE only).

Agreed - maybe it'll give us a clue as to who actually had the hybrid working best? As well as the aero changes (looks like less holes in bodywork) I guess weight distribution will be a big area of change as well. Could see updates throughout the season as people adjust to the changes.

Originally Posted by tbtstt

I think 2025 is going to be a Toyota year in Rally1 and Rally2, but perhaps I am jumping the gun a bit with my prediction there.

I think Rovanpera will take the drivers title - but the manufacturers will be close I think, if you assume that Rovanpera and Evans equate to Neuville and Tanak then it comes down to who can bank the most points from Katsuta & Pajari vs Formeaux. Do we put Ogier down as a nailed on win in Monte Carlo?

WRC2 looks like it'll be close as well - the Toyota looks good but Skoda always have a decent car and the Citroen have a decent lineup. Certainly appears to be wide open - we could easily see wins from 5 manufacturers in WRC2. I suspect we'll see a lot of entries that don't do a full season - so that could shake up the final standings if the part timers take big points off the full season entries (not a complaint).