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Old 30 Nov 2018, 12:50 (Ref:3867002)   #1
Colin McKay
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Weber DCOE- When first used?

48's, not 45's as in the thread title - duh!

Anyone know when these were introduced? I have been told that they were certainly around in 1962 but can't find any hard evidence.

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Old 30 Nov 2018, 13:51 (Ref:3867009)   #2
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The 45 is the weapon of choice for the FIA MGB which suggests the 48 was around at the same time 1963(?).
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Old 30 Nov 2018, 14:49 (Ref:3867022)   #3
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I read that the Cobra prototype had DCOEs in 1962 but I'm not sure which model they were.
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Old 30 Nov 2018, 15:13 (Ref:3867026)   #4
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https://www.tecno2.it/cms/downloads/...ioni-1960-1973

This scanned document (no searchable text included but I might be able to create something from if some software I have does not object to Italian) has reference to a 48DCO3 being available for a Maserati 250F.

See page 24.

I may have missed earlier references as I scanned.

So there may be more to be discovered here to provide dating guidance.

Other than in the file name I have not spotted any dates for availability. The Document appears to be a combination of several product lists of different years between 1960 and 1973.

Wikipedia does not have much either.

There may be other sources ...
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Old 30 Nov 2018, 15:19 (Ref:3867028)   #5
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I used 48s in my Hot Rod in the late 60s but the ones I used in my Anglia in later years were 50s
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Old 30 Nov 2018, 15:59 (Ref:3867037)   #6
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I used 45s in the mid 60s on the Anglia (and 40s were available at that time). And I read somewhere that Ferrari were experimenting with side-draught Webers in the early 60s, although size/type was not mentioned.
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Old 30 Nov 2018, 16:17 (Ref:3867039)   #7
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Thread title changed.

I’d say mid 60s, without doing any research to back that up......

I would like to think that someone like webcon or other Weber specialist dealer could give an accurate answer?
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Old 30 Nov 2018, 18:09 (Ref:3867078)   #8
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Thanks Mike
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Old 30 Nov 2018, 18:10 (Ref:3867079)   #9
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The DCO was different from the DCOE. DCOs were around at least as early as 1958. Happen to know this as I did some research on 32DCOs for Delta just a few months ago.
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Old 1 Dec 2018, 11:55 (Ref:3867230)   #10
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From the PDF file linked earlier the 48, in any variant, only appears once, as mentioned, in the "Discontinued" list from 1960.

The 1968 and 1973 documents don't mention a 48 anything at all.


Meanwhile ...


While looking at those documents ... what was a Ford Anglia Torino?


..... and a quick Google later .....

https://www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk...-anglia-torino

Well I never.
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Old 7 Dec 2018, 10:05 (Ref:3868498)   #11
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The DCO was different from the DCOE. DCOs were around at least as early as 1958. Happen to know this as I did some research on 32DCOs for Delta just a few months ago.
DCO's were the sand cast body hand built carburettor, and were in a lotto winners price bracket for a genuine matching numbers set. Norman Seeny certainly produced very respectable reproductions and were marked as such, The matched set on John Quick's (JQ recently RIP) . WOO 11 disappeared when the car was in the USA, and certainly not with the car on it's return to Europe in 2001 That particular set came from Peter Sargent complete with manifold after Dr Klat fitted injection to the two Peter's lightweight E.
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Old 29 Jan 2019, 16:48 (Ref:3880457)   #12
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So, if you fit brand new copies of DCOs the cars will become "original" again!

Apparently a few people have made copies of DCOs over the years, with varied success - turns out the originals are rather more complex than they appear and accuracy is important.

I assume there were DCO1s & 2s.
Lots of cars have DCO3s and some DCO4s.
The E in DCOE is presumably for the 5th generation and they changed to letters rather than numbers at that point?
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Old 29 Jan 2019, 17:06 (Ref:3880469)   #13
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As the originals were sand cast, would it be cost effective for a manufacturer to reproduce the DCO in the small quantities needed? Then there would be the specific to engine type manifolds needed as well. Can’t see it happening, but it would obviously get a few people out of difficulties!
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Old 30 Jan 2019, 09:13 (Ref:3880604)   #14
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As the originals were sand cast, would it be cost effective for a manufacturer to reproduce the DCO in the small quantities needed? Then there would be the specific to engine type manifolds needed as well. Can’t see it happening, but it would obviously get a few people out of difficulties!
It's a lot easier/cheaper to reproduce sand cast things than die-cast.

C&G used to make 58DCOs.
At least one outfit are currently making 45DCOs for Jaguars.

Not sure how much the Jag ones are but the 58s were quite (!) expensive.

The FIA will probably say the car is worth far more than the cost of the carbs - which is true for some of them but possibly not for some Climax single cam powered cars for example.

I guess it depends on your definition of cost effective.
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Old 30 Jan 2019, 09:30 (Ref:3880611)   #15
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If the need is great enough, Hopefully it will happen!
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Old 30 Jan 2019, 17:01 (Ref:3880707)   #16
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If the need is great enough, Hopefully it will happen!
As long as need translates into enough money, the replica DCOs were eye wateringly expensive.

Or there might be a rush on SUs, but some new SUs can be surprisingly expensive as well.
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Old 31 Jan 2019, 10:02 (Ref:3880845)   #17
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It's a lot easier/cheaper to reproduce sand cast things than die-cast.

C&G used to make 58DCOs.
At least one outfit are currently making 45DCOs for Jaguars.

Not sure how much the Jag ones are but the 58s were quite (!) expensive.

The FIA will probably say the car is worth far more than the cost of the carbs - which is true for some of them but possibly not for some Climax single cam powered cars for example.

I guess it depends on your definition of cost effective.
Linking correctness and respect of history to costs would only kill the category, much more cost effective to fit a VTec engine in a Cortina isn't it? But then, it's no longer linked to what it was. Replicas are not historic but the least is to have them like the period ones.
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Old 29 Jan 2019, 17:48 (Ref:3880474)   #18
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Seems Jenvey makes something looking like sand casted DCOE's with and injector inside. I guess at least Andy and may be Viva saw this at NEC. Different from a DCO I admit.
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Old 10 Feb 2019, 15:25 (Ref:3882960)   #19
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Just back from Rétromobile, seems Jaguar Heritage has some old 45 DCO3 (#109 for instance) fitted on D Type. Hope this can help. More details may be John elwin knows more.
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Old 10 Feb 2019, 15:42 (Ref:3882964)   #20
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Just back from Rétromobile, seems Jaguar Heritage has some old 45 DCO3 (#109 for instance) fitted on D Type. Hope this can help. More details may be John elwin knows more.
Yes, 45s being fitted on Jaguars was mentioned a few posts ago. I think it’s 40s that are required for the smaller engined cars discussed (much) earlier....
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Old 12 Feb 2019, 15:53 (Ref:3883559)   #21
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Do Lotus Elites use DCOEs?
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Old 12 Feb 2019, 16:07 (Ref:3883565)   #22
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Do Lotus Elites use DCOEs?
Yes as they are a later (1961) homologation. 40DCOE or H4 SU on the form.
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Old 12 Feb 2019, 16:13 (Ref:3883567)   #23
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If Jag' Heritage can have 45 DCO made why not 40? Just a matter of money.
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Old 12 Feb 2019, 16:20 (Ref:3883570)   #24
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Probably because it will cost a lot to get it into production, and someone will have to bankroll that. Then the risk is selling enough to get the investment back. But as has been said in the thread before, if there is enough demand for anything, it can be done.....
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Old 14 Feb 2019, 09:15 (Ref:3884052)   #25
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If Jag' Heritage can have 45 DCO made why not 40? Just a matter of money.
There's no problem making them if the demand is there.
It could be possible to make 40mm versions using the patterns for the 45s, which would save a lot even if they aren't 100% accurate.

Given what Jaguar are charging for their cars they have included the 15 grand or so for 3 new carbs, which is apparently less than they "spend" on the paintwork.

The problem is people who's cars are worth less than a tenth of the price of the new Jaguars where 10 grand (only 2 carbs) is a large proportion of the cars value.

Another issue is why fitting brand new carbs to a 60 year old car makes it more original than using what could be 50 year old carbs.
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