Argentinian Turismo Carretera - Page 2

Belatti · 19 Mar 2010, 20:42 (Ref:2655999)

Thanks FIRE!

Check this video, from 1996. The track is an oval, but with a couple of chicanes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYLKgK9vD88

Speed-King · 19 Mar 2010, 23:41 (Ref:2656134)

TC is not officially on my to-do list for my next vacation to Argentian, whenever that might be... never been there, actually

rustyfan · 21 Mar 2010, 21:28 (Ref:2657453)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belatti

Thanks FIRE!

Check this video, from 1996. The track is an oval, but with a couple of chicanes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYLKgK9vD88

Thanks for the link, that was awesome!

Imagine the WTCC racing there. Oooh, the mere thought of the massive slipstream battles they'd have almost makes my head spin.

NaBUru38 · 21 Mar 2010, 22:46 (Ref:2657499)

That oval is Rafaela. The USAC raced there (without chicanes). The TC2000 attempted to do the same in 2005. The qualifying average speeds went over 240km/h (150mph), and the race was held on another course. TC cars achieve 200km/h (125mph) laps with chicanes.

Belatti · 22 Mar 2010, 00:34 (Ref:2657551)

Quote:

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

That oval is Rafaela. The USAC raced there (without chicanes). The TC2000 attempted to do the same in 2005. The qualifying average speeds went over 240km/h (150mph), and the race was held on another course. TC cars achieve 200km/h (125mph) laps with chicanes.

No, TC2000 used the track for 1 race. After a lot of controversy and some tests because the cars and tyres are not designed for ovals, the race was held and Gabriel Ponce de Leon won in a Focus, with a lap record of 244 KmH. He battled almost all the race with Rossi in a Chevrolet.

It was a great race. Sadly, I couldnt find any video of that at youtube.

The USAC raced there in 1971, for the "Rafaela 300 Indy".
Pole position was for Lloyd Ruby in a Mosgoose Ford Turbo, in 59.74 seconds with an average speed of 278,675 KmH. The oval track has 4624,46 metres.

Matt · 22 Mar 2010, 15:37 (Ref:2657872)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belatti

Regarding year budgets for TC top teams, 400K USD is 200K USD short from reality.

To clarify the questions about TC and its support series, I`ll repost something I posted in another forum:

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Well people, to show and share with you some pics I took in one of the last TC races I went last year.
There are some interesting things to see, sometimes it may be hard to understand the whys but just in that case here are the TC Rules:
http://www.actc.org.ar/php/reglamentos.php

The first thing to understand is that there are 4 TC categories:
A) TC
B) TC Pista
C) TC Mouras
D) TC Mouras Pista

The top (and most competitive) series is the TC. When TC top teams build a new chasis, they drop their cars to smaller TC teams or to TCP teams... and top TCP teams drop their cars to TCM teams and so on.
This happens because one of the things where TC rules let engineers and designers free is in the steel frame structure. The best cars wont last more than 1 season before that they have to be reinforced/repaired with the obvious weight increase.

Structures are incredibly rigid (600Kgm torsion tests show arround 1mm deofrmations) and light taking in account that they are Ø50mm x 1.25mm MIG or TIG welded steel tubes.

In those 4 categories there are 4 "types" of cars allowed:

It is mainly because of tradition, that the external shapes and old engine cylinder blocks are still used:

* Ford Falcon
* Chevy SS
* Dodge Polara or R/T
* Torino (Argentine 70s car)

As it can be noticed, Dodge and Chevy has aerodynamic advantages over Torino and Ford, so the rules allow a couple things to help balance things.

Also I have heard that a roof top deflector have helped Fords to reduce the stall that produced a big downforce drop between 160 and 180 Kph and that disapeared at more than 180kph to regain downforce.

Yeah, Ford drivers are special dudes and not any driver can adapt to that.

Another thing that is ruled to help balance things is front suspension geometry: 3 of the 4 wishbone-chasis mountings have a "window" of arround 50mm where you can place them. The 4th is free. Damper/spring mounting is also free.

BTW, the steel disc rotors rules changed a while ago to a 5Kg minimum front and 4 Kg minimum rear after some top teams where qualifying with special 1.5Kg rotors.

Rear suspension geometry is free but it has to be a live axle with 4 links.

Check this weird damper-spring mounting point:

I guess they where looking to have a motion ratio that is different in bump than in roll. There was only 1 team I saw using with this stuff.

At the engine department, we have displacement limited to 3110cc. The ACTC (governing body) changes compression ratio for each make whenever it feels to, and they are in the 9.2 to 9.5 region.

Engines are straight-6, OHV of course, 2 per cylinder and feeded with one Weber 48 IDA carb.

They pump 380HP at arround 9500 rpm and there is a development going on to place aluminum multivalve cylinder heads and reach 450HP out from a 3 liter NA engine... with a block that was designed in the 50s!!!

With the current engines the top speeds are arround 280Kph, remember TC doesnt use oval tracks!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1YEe...eature=related

Beyond "aero" rules being rather strict, there are interesting aero bits to analyze

Here I caught these guys changing the oil radiator intake (iys in the hood) and then I noticed that car had a chaneled-to the floor oil radiator exhaust:

The other cars use to have the oil rad together with the water heat exchanger, at the lower front.

Also, as the rules prohibit "closed wing profiles" at the front, some guys that need front DF uses craps like this:

Notice the cloth skirt that its allowed only at the front. The floor must be flat and cant have diffusers.

Finally, I have heard that these cars do well with more than 7° of caster. Power steering is not allowed and the cars weight 1200Kg, so the drivers that can withstand a race with a 9° caster and still be able to turn the wheel in the last lap has an advntage. TC is for "machos", the ACTC president said. I hope all the training Jose Lopez did helps him for this season

Thats all for now floks!!!

No power steering?

Belatti · 22 Mar 2010, 19:39 (Ref:2658048)

Some more pictures for you that doesnt know in wich 70s cars the TC is based:

Chevy SS

Dodge GTX

Torino (Argentinian car)

Ford Falcon Sprint

rustyfan · 22 Mar 2010, 19:50 (Ref:2658064)

Thanks for the images and the comparison, that's just awesome

**FIRE** · 23 Mar 2010, 12:59 (Ref:2658574)

The Chevy and Dodge (the road cars

) look great.

Speed-King · 28 Mar 2010, 13:53 (Ref:2661734)

Found this on 'another' forum:

Quote:

Turismo carretera & turismo pista
buenos aires
sunday 15:00 cet (L)
spanish feed
http://www.novelasarg.com.ar/
click on "entrar al sitio" and "CANAL DE TV canal 13"

It's not on yet, so I supposse someone got confused by Europe switching to daylight saving last night and it should start in a few minutes.
The stream is running well, and if you always wanted to watch the "incredible Hulk" animated series in Spanish, tune in right now

Edit: Race coverage is on now

**FIRE** · 28 Mar 2010, 14:17 (Ref:2661744)

Thanks for the link

**FIRE** · 28 Mar 2010, 14:30 (Ref:2661754)

During TV interviews there are always half a dozen girls behind the driver. Funny to see and typical Argentinian (or South-American?).

Speed-King · 28 Mar 2010, 14:36 (Ref:2661762)

The driving is more like BTCC or NASCAR, though... lots of contact and the occasional bump-and-run...

Speed-King · 28 Mar 2010, 14:55 (Ref:2661783)

The Pistas race was quite entertaining, now I am curious what Pechito Lopez can do in the TC race!

Looks like they also show the heat races of TC, not just the feature race.

**FIRE** · 28 Mar 2010, 15:07 (Ref:2661796)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speed-King

The driving is more like BTCC or NASCAR, though... lots of contact and the occasional bump-and-run...

Yep but fun to watch. Large grids, lots of action, great tracks (not these clean modern GP tracks).

Speed-King · 28 Mar 2010, 15:52 (Ref:2661837)

I also like that they don't interupt the races for commercials!

**FIRE** · 28 Mar 2010, 15:58 (Ref:2661846)

Now main race?

Speed-King · 28 Mar 2010, 16:39 (Ref:2661888)

I think so. FCY now. any idea how much longer this race will run? I've missed the first 30 or so minutes...

Edit: restart with 9 laps to go

Speed-King · 28 Mar 2010, 17:05 (Ref:2661903)

Now that was simply AWESOME!!

That battle between Catejano and Ledesma with seven or so laps was absolutely insane - too bad Catejano had a flat tire then.
But the battle for third almost made up for that: Cars spinning out, awesome slip stream battles, door banging, jumping over the curbs in the chicane and tons of position changes!! This might have been the best racing I've seen in quite some time! At least since the BTCC-finale!

**Dani Filth** · 28 Mar 2010, 17:05 (Ref:2661905)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speed-King

TC is not officially on my to-do list for my next vacation to Argentian, whenever that might be... never been there, actually

I think you mean "now"... and i'll join you

**Dani Filth** · 28 Mar 2010, 17:06 (Ref:2661906)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Now that was simply AWESOME!!

That battle between Catejano and Ledesma with seven or so laps was absolutely insane - too bad Catejano had a flat tire then.
But the battle for third almost made up for that: Cars spinning out, awesome slip stream battles, door banging, jumping over the curbs in the chicane and tons of position changes!! This might have been the best racing I've seen in quite some time! At least since the BTCC-finale!

I think it beats the BTCC finale .. and TC is probably the best touring car(tube frame or not) series now

**FIRE** · 28 Mar 2010, 17:09 (Ref:2661910)

Missed most of main race but enjoyed the racing I have seen today. I will keep an eye on the website were you found that stream. Will watch more of TC this season. Last week they had a stream of the TC2000 race.

**FIRE** · 28 Mar 2010, 17:40 (Ref:2661939)

Next Turismo Carretera race at Neuquen (don't say this word to a Dutch speaking man

) at April 18.

Speed-King · 28 Mar 2010, 17:45 (Ref:2661949)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dani Filth

I think you mean "now"... and i'll join you

You are of course, absolutely right!

Belatti · 29 Mar 2010, 13:49 (Ref:2662670)

Quote:

Originally Posted by FIRE

During TV interviews there are always half a dozen girls behind the driver. Funny to see and typical Argentinian (or South-American?).

Is there a better way to marketing your product than in these girls in spandex?

Regarding the battle between Castellano and Ledesma, thats the way overtaking in TC almost always is: a maneuver that starts in a corner and ends 3 or 4 corners later.

Its really fine when drivers respect each others trajectories and a fair and good battle takes part

About the track... well... just imagine how F1 races would be in that track that was used in the 70s with those long straights arround the lake and the Salotto big curve

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