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21 Mar 2019, 22:44 (Ref:3892567) | #676 | ||
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21 Mar 2019, 22:45 (Ref:3892570) | #677 | ||
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Maybe Williams will. Who knows, after all, McLaren won the tender to manufacture and supply the standardised ECU that all the teams have to use. And even though that was some time ago, I believe that they still hlod the contract. Stranger things have happened. Mind you, it would be nice to have Hewland back. |
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21 Mar 2019, 23:13 (Ref:3892590) | #678 | |
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Williams know all about technology. Not sure if the McLaren is relevant here
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21 Mar 2019, 23:43 (Ref:3892605) | #679 | ||
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That is for gearbox internals only - casing, oil system, CoG would all still be down to each team.
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22 Mar 2019, 01:00 (Ref:3892619) | #680 | ||
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22 Mar 2019, 01:33 (Ref:3892623) | #681 | ||
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Why not have either Hewland, who manufacture the gearboxes for F2, or Xtrac who manufacture gearboxes for a variety of motosports series?
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22 Mar 2019, 01:59 (Ref:3892624) | #682 | |
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22 Mar 2019, 03:08 (Ref:3892631) | #683 | |
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Because they haven’t got the money to progress
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22 Mar 2019, 06:56 (Ref:3892654) | #684 | ||
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22 Mar 2019, 11:14 (Ref:3892696) | #685 | |
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https://www.motorsportjobs.com/en/jobs/williams
11 aero-related jobs going at Williams; looks like they've identified at least part of the problem. |
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22 Mar 2019, 13:30 (Ref:3892729) | #686 | |||
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Quote:
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22 Mar 2019, 14:43 (Ref:3892742) | #687 | ||
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I thought this was an interesting article on Williams' predicament.
http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/142273 |
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22 Mar 2019, 19:46 (Ref:3892813) | #688 | ||
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Well, it perhaps doesn't make sense in their situation to be investing in gearboxes for their own sake. But to supply the whole grid it could well do.
The issue of other teams effectively financing Williams by being required to purchase gearboxes from them is a potentially thorny one, but McLaren have done it somehow with the ECUs. |
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22 Mar 2019, 21:37 (Ref:3892831) | #689 | |
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What I find odd about the idea that Williams continues to develop their own gearbox in-house only because they plan to submit a bid on the F1 standard gearbox is...
The tender is just for the internal gearbox cassette and not the entire gearbox. The thing that people complain about with respect to Williams is that they continue to use an aluminum casing instead of a carbon fiber unit. So regardless of who get the tender, Williams will still be faced with the issue of... do we source a gearbox (and maybe rear-end suspension geometry/configuration) from someone else or do we build our own. And if they build their own, do they continue to build an aluminum unit or carbon one? I suspect... that broadly speaking, the design of the internals of an F1 gearbox is not particularly rocket science (in comparison to the rest of the entire car and in particular the engine). So there are likely multiple qualified suppliers including someone like Xtrac who I believe plans to submit a bid. Even then... the spec internals while needing to meet demanding specs are intended to be the same for everyone. So there is little need (outside of acceptable cost and durability) for complex or tricky solutions. This speaks to simplicity of the solution which should expand the list of potential bidders, or... allow a highly competent supplier to outbid newcomers. All in all, I don't buy the theory that Williams is holding out for that contract. I expect the real reason is that they just plain don't want to outsource items they feel might differentiate them. Even if their "differentiation" sucks. And that is not the internals, but the outer casing and everything that bolts too it. Now... it will be interesting to see who gets the contract. I can already see that situation now in that somehow Williams wins the contract (lets say even on merit) and then there is speculation that they were thrown a bone to help generate revenue because everyone wants to keep Williams in F1. Does anyone even know if Williams even plans to submit a bid? For all we know Williams might even outsource much of the internals today! Their internals may be built to their spec, but do they actually do that work? Do they have the facilities to design and manufacture that many internals? If they do, they probably would need to scale up. And if you scale up would you do it just for one contract? I expect someone like Xtrac who already supplies to multiple series already has the infrastructure to support an F1 contract, while it would be a risky endeavour a small player to ramp up for a high profile contract. Richard |
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22 Mar 2019, 23:59 (Ref:3892849) | #690 | |
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Richard, I think you need some research into a powershift gearbox, the material science and engineering involved in powershifting 1000 hp in the components of small compact light unit would exceed anything else in the car.
I think the fact that the gearbox will prove to be a major performance differentiator is why the powers that be are trying to outsource them to a single specialized outside supplier. |
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23 Mar 2019, 00:26 (Ref:3892855) | #691 | |
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I wonder if half a season of kubica to help develop the car while Russell gains experience, then swapping him out midseason for esteban ocon could be a good scenario? Then Mercedes has a more active interest in helping Williams, to give their two guys halfway respectable cars, and have a half season shootout between the two in a situation where they won't even have too many cars around them to distract from their race. Winner gets next open seat at Mercedes if bottas is not kept after this year. Would be enough of a story to get tv time for the team and sponsor too.
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23 Mar 2019, 01:22 (Ref:3892863) | #692 | |||
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23 Mar 2019, 02:59 (Ref:3892872) | #693 | ||
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As to being a differentiator. Are teams complaining about this move to this standardize component? I don’t think so. I doubt there is little differences between them with respect to performance and this is why teams are probably ok with it. There is little to no gain by having the overhead of doing it themselves. Probably the main area of any difference would be in lubricants and that can continue to be the purview of the teams and their lubricant partner. Assuming that is not tightly controlled by whoever supplies the gear stack. Remember I am talking about the gear cassette, not the entire gearbox. There remains plenty of differentiation in that area. It’s also not clear to me if things like the differential is part of the standardization or not. Richard |
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23 Mar 2019, 07:01 (Ref:3892889) | #694 | ||
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23 Mar 2019, 07:25 (Ref:3892892) | #695 | ||
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Mercedes know what Ocon can do they don't need to put him in a Williams and of you were Ocon you would give it a wide berth at the moment surely? Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk |
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23 Mar 2019, 11:40 (Ref:3892932) | #696 | |
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Well it depends how much Kubica improves by and it depends how much Ocon wants to be back in F1
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23 Mar 2019, 12:04 (Ref:3892936) | #697 | ||
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Not enough to be in a dog of a Williams..... More likely to do him more harm than good, something Kubica should have been able to recognise. Smacks of desperation to get back in a F1 car somehow, anyhow.......
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44 days... |
23 Mar 2019, 12:17 (Ref:3892940) | #698 | ||
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All of this speculation about Williams possibly supplying the spec. gearbox is making me feel guilty! A while ago I made a very glib comment to this effect as an explanation as to why they were continuing to make their own, I certainly wasn't being serious...
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23 Mar 2019, 12:22 (Ref:3892942) | #699 | ||
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Look what you've started, .
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23 Mar 2019, 12:45 (Ref:3892944) | #700 | ||
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Makes sense, if you can't climb upto where the others are... Bring them back to you by having them use your kit.
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