Hispania with Renault? Virgin-Mercedes?

[karimbo]

Does anyone know if Hispania Racing Team and Virgin-F1 will have new engines next year?

I heard that McLaren will collaborate with Virgin, will that mean Mercedes engines? McLaren gearboxes?

Will Hispania get Renault engines? The chassis seems much better this year, but the motor is weak!

[Marbot]

AFAIK, both teams will stay with the Cosworth engines for the next two years.

People say that the Cosworth engine is weak, but the Renault engine in the back of the Team Lotus car hasn't made a huge difference to it, even with better aerodynamics than Virgin and HRT. I think that it's fair to say that the Cosworth engine could have won a few GPs if it were fitted to the right car. What Virgin, HRT, and to a lesser extent, Team Lotus need, is substantially better aerodynamics. Which is probably where the collaboration with other teams comes in.

[Bononi]

I like the idea of a Virgin Mercedes...

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Marbot

AFAIK, both teams will stay with the Cosworth engines for the next two years.

People say that the Cosworth engine is weak, but the Renault engine in the back of the Team Lotus car hasn't made a huge difference to it, even with better aerodynamics than Virgin and HRT. I think that it's fair to say that the Cosworth engine could have won a few GPs if it were fitted to the right car. What Virgin, HRT, and to a lesser extent, Team Lotus need, is substantially better aerodynamics. Which is probably where the collaboration with other teams comes in.

But is Cosworth able to supply a full range of services like Renault, such as the transmission, the KERS package, funding for carrying the logos...

They are a great engine partner from all accounts, but teams seem to want way more than that these days...

A Hispania Renault with RBT gearbox and RBT KERS would be a big kick up from where they are now... a new chassis on top.. plus some more slushy Red Bull money from Mr Ricciardello's patrons.. and they will most likely be on par with CaterhamF1...

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by Marbot

AFAIK, both teams will stay with the Cosworth engines for the next two years.

People say that the Cosworth engine is weak, but the Renault engine in the back of the Team Lotus car hasn't made a huge difference to it, even with better aerodynamics than Virgin and HRT. I think that it's fair to say that the Cosworth engine could have won a few GPs if it were fitted to the right car. What Virgin, HRT, and to a lesser extent, Team Lotus need, is substantially better aerodynamics. Which is probably where the collaboration with other teams comes in.

What people say what? Cosworth say that their engine can win races...

I would like to see that engine in a race winning chassis...I did read your post, before you ask..

[Marbot]

Cosworth seem to think so.

http://www.planetf1.com/driver/3213/...can-win-races-

Many would say that the Renault engine is probably the least powerful engine out there.

Currently, Cosworth does not have its own KERS, but they are working on an integrated system for 2014.

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by Marbot

Cosworth seem to think so.

http://www.planetf1.com/driver/3213/...can-win-races-

Many would say that the Renault engine is probably the least powerful engine out there.

Currently, Cosworth does not have its own KERS, but they are working on an integrated system for 2014.

I believe that he is not talking BS about his engine, and KERS, I cannot believe F1 is wasting it's time and huge amounts of money on this push to pass rubbish...

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

I believe that he is not talking BS about his engine, and KERS, I cannot believe F1 is wasting it's time and huge amounts of money on this push to pass rubbish...

I agree with your first point.

But: "we don't want to end up a dinosaur in five or ten years' time " (Ross Brawn).


In 2014 the regenerative systems will not be 'push-to-pass' systems. They will be absolutely necessary to get your car to the finishing flag as fast as possible. Not using KERS, etc in 2014 is not an option, unless you either want to run the race at a very slow pace or run out of fuel after about 2/3rds distance at a typical race pace.

The fossil fuel burning engine is, IMO, already well into the winter of its life. It's probably not a good idea for F1 to hold onto it until the very end.

[JeremySmith]

The last line of your post is one of the best things you have ever written here, and has resonated with me..

What will replace it the petrol engine though ?? I think the people in charge know the answer, and we are now playing a rather sick game..

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

What will replace it the petrol engine though ?? I think the people in charge know the answer, and we are now playing a rather sick game..

There are those that are unwilling to let go, and those that know that the inevitable will happen long before fossil fuels finally run out.

I think that the future is electric, and you might find yourself calling into a service station to fit a battery in the same way that you would call in to fill up your tank.

Hydrogen powered cars are really way too expensive. The one that Honda has built has a fuel cell that costs £250,000!!! Maybe in 50 years time? But maybe not. Because most supplies of hydrogen come from the refining of oil!

You would think that the oil companies would be dead against things like electric cars (some of which now are very, very good), but actually they are only too happy for them to come into existence, because the demand for oil in places like China and India is massive (China is now the largest net user of oil) and supply cannot keep up with demand.

Oil is now very difficult to get at, prices for oil rises to slow down demand, pump prices rise, cars with fossil fuel engines become expensive to run. And that's even before you get into the pollution debate.

[wnut]

How about growing the stuff.
Way underrated solution.

Also making from coal Fisher Trompf processing - huge coal reserves.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by wnut

How about growing the stuff.
Way underrated solution.

"Growing stuff" to run motor vehicles takes up too much farm land that is required to run human beings.

Originally Posted by wnut

Also making from coal Fisher Trompf processing - huge coal reserves.

A process, I am told, that has a 25 to 50% efficiency rate and requires the use of natural gas.

Sasol of South Africa, springs to mind.

[Bononi]

Back on, so Cosworth think they can win, so they need a top team then.

[wolfhound]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

A Hispania Renault with RBT gearbox and RBT KERS would be a big kick up from where they are now... a new chassis on top.. plus some more slushy Red Bull money from Mr Ricciardello's patrons.. and they will most likely be on par with CaterhamF1...

Hispania currently use the Williams gearbox to the best of my knowledge, or will use them next year.

[Born Racer]

Originally Posted by Bononi

I like the idea of a Virgin Mercedes...

That's very 'you', Bononi, that comment.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by wolfhound

Hispania currently use the Williams gearbox to the best of my knowledge, or will use them next year.

Hopefully its not the 2011 unit...

My point is that teams these days seem to be looking for a one-stop-shop for their bought in hardware and software. Picking up an engine from Cosworth, dragging in a gearbox from Williams or Xtrac, and having to conceptualise, design & build your own DRS, KERS & ECU mapping sounds like a lot of work for the smaller teams...

Its not impossible for it to be done, I mean Mr Stoddart's tiny EA Minardi squad built & rebuilt a series of old Cosworth engines back in the day to run in their F1 cars... Arrows ran their own engines... smaller teams than the giants, perhaps less pressure then too... but equally a one stop shop for oily bits

[spider]

Had dinner with a high-up member of Cosworth, interesting to hear what happened with Maldonado's failure...

Not really been mentioned that Mark Gallagher has left there rather quietly - connected with him on Linkedin, and he just seems to have quietly left there...

I fear for Cosworth going-forward.

They know, for example, that they have 22bhp more than Renault, but clearly the unit isn't as strong overall.

Plus, with only two teams now, and with HRT not really looking like a strong long-term bet for the future (that Zander turning them down is a little...disappointing), it's a tough call for allocating resources going-forward.

Apparently Frank Williams visited them in the early part of this year to apologise to the Cosworth employees for producing such a **** car...rightly so really, as the Williams' performance has really done the damage for them...

[p-matt]

Is it completely out of the question that the Renault team will run Cosworths next year? Renault seem to view Red Bull as their works team, and have more invested in Team Lotus and Williams than the team that bears their name?

[Bonanza]

Originally Posted by p-matt

Is it completely out of the question that the Renault team will run Cosworths next year? Renault seem to view Red Bull as their works team, and have more invested in Team Lotus and Williams than the team that bears their name?

Lotus Renault Cosworth.

lets hope not.

[Marbot]

Renault press releases indicate that they will be supplying a fourth team for the 2012/13 seasons. So that would indicate that Lotus Renault will also be keeping theirs.

Renault press release:

"Renault has already announced that it will supply a fourth team, namely AT&T Williams, with its championship-winning V8 power units for the 2012 and 2013 seasons. The original Anglo-French alliance enjoyed a hugely successful association between 1989 and 1997, yielding four Drivers’ and five Constructors’ titles and 63 race wins."

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by spider

Had dinner with a high-up member of Cosworth, interesting to hear what happened with Maldonado's failure...

Not really been mentioned that Mark Gallagher has left there rather quietly - connected with him on Linkedin, and he just seems to have quietly left there...

I fear for Cosworth going-forward.

They know, for example, that they have 22bhp more than Renault, but clearly the unit isn't as strong overall.

Plus, with only two teams now, and with HRT not really looking like a strong long-term bet for the future (that Zander turning them down is a little...disappointing), it's a tough call for allocating resources going-forward.

Apparently Frank Williams visited them in the early part of this year to apologise to the Cosworth employees for producing such a **** car...rightly so really, as the Williams' performance has really done the damage for them...

How would you know if the Cosworth is any good when it is stuck in arguably the worst cars on the grid (other than the 1Malaysia Lotus)?

I wonder how much of this issue is actually marketing related. I mean if a team has a customer Ferrari engine, everyone has heard of Ferrari, so it kind of builds an expectation.. same as a Renault (points to Red Bull...).. same as Mercedes (points at Schumi, McLaren etc etc...).. whereas when you talk about a Cosworth.. who (other than a keen follower) can instantly point out their successes?

On track for a second.. what happens if Cosworth isnt available next year to service the HRT or Virgin engines? Will they end up in the days of Tyrrell when engines were sourced from the likes of Langford & Peck or similar?