Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Clubmans Rallycross Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Other Motorsports > Rallying & Rallycross

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 15 Nov 2018, 17:54 (Ref:3863513)   #1
crossfades
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Sweden
Posts: 957
crossfades should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
RallyX Nordic 2019

Things are shaping up for next year and some huge news for the series was released today. I copy-pasted the new technical regulations but I highly suggest reading the article.

"In order to keep costs down and demonstrate that purchasing a current-specification rallycross Supercar is a solid investment, the following technical rules have been confirmed:

No expensive data-loggers will be introduced in the series

Non-homologated ECU software will be permitted

There will be no limit on the number of engines or turbos – the preference is for competitors to open their engine and fix it or use a lower-cost turbo which can be changed when needed

Direct-injection engines will be banned

Front radiators in Supercars will be outlawed to improve reliability

In conjunction with long-term series partner Cooper Tires, a harder compound tyre will be run in the Supercar class in 2019 to help equalise car performance


https://www.rallyx.se/2018/11/15/ral...Y5hiVrXDMizflo
crossfades is offline  
Quote
Old 15 Nov 2018, 20:32 (Ref:3863533)   #2
1975DCS
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Netherlands
Posts: 755
1975DCS should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by crossfades View Post
Things are shaping up for next year and some huge news for the series was released today. I copy-pasted the new technical regulations but I highly suggest reading the article.



"In order to keep costs down and demonstrate that purchasing a current-specification rallycross Supercar is a solid investment, the following technical rules have been confirmed:



No expensive data-loggers will be introduced in the series



Non-homologated ECU software will be permitted



There will be no limit on the number of engines or turbos – the preference is for competitors to open their engine and fix it or use a lower-cost turbo which can be changed when needed



Direct-injection engines will be banned



Front radiators in Supercars will be outlawed to improve reliability



In conjunction with long-term series partner Cooper Tires, a harder compound tyre will be run in the Supercar class in 2019 to help equalise car performance




https://www.rallyx.se/2018/11/15/ral...Y5hiVrXDMizflo


Why not allowed direct injection? You could not even develop a VW Golf R engine for example. It is better to ban stuff that isn't available on road going hatches like ALS (this wil decrease the size in turbo in order to keep it spool enough quickly), kevlar and special plastics.
1975DCS is offline  
Quote
Old 20 Nov 2018, 16:40 (Ref:3864534)   #3
Silhuette
Racer
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 126
Silhuette should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Is it not obvious? They want to limit cost by staying with commonly available engines and parts all drivers can purchase.

Direct injection engines are more complex and cost much more than the traditional engines. And when you say ban ALS, which technologies would you ban? There are several ways to solve the problem, some of which are possible on production engines - Toyota even offered it stock on the Celica GT4.
Silhuette is offline  
Quote
Old 20 Nov 2018, 17:58 (Ref:3864547)   #4
tbtstt
Veteran
 
tbtstt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
United Kingdom
Redhill, England
Posts: 3,704
tbtstt should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridtbtstt should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I actually disagree with regards to the software control. Relative to the cost of a Supercar I don't think homologated ECU's & software are that expensive, but it's an area where an unfair advantage could be gained.

Banning front mount cars is an interesting move. Am I right in saying only three cars have run front mount setups? (PSRXVW, OMSE and Munnich?).
tbtstt is offline  
Quote
Old 23 Nov 2018, 10:45 (Ref:3865210)   #5
crossfades
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Sweden
Posts: 957
crossfades should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbtstt View Post
Banning front mount cars is an interesting move. Am I right in saying only three cars have run front mount setups? (PSRXVW, OMSE and Munnich?).
Correct, I didn't know about Münnich though. Andreas Eriksson is very involved in the series, perhaps some of the engine failures for OMSE in WRX inspired the front mount ban.
crossfades is offline  
Quote
Old 24 Nov 2018, 18:04 (Ref:3865488)   #6
1975DCS
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Netherlands
Posts: 755
1975DCS should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silhuette View Post
Is it not obvious? They want to limit cost by staying with commonly available engines and parts all drivers can purchase.

Direct injection engines are more complex and cost much more than the traditional engines. And when you say ban ALS, which technologies would you ban? There are several ways to solve the problem, some of which are possible on production engines - Toyota even offered it stock on the Celica GT4.


Well you actually gave your own answer? Why ban direct injections engines which are available on thousands of VAG and PSA engines while there aren't many Road going hatches with proper ALS (like you see in RX) let alone kevlar body panels and wide body cars. They seem to be cutting costs in the wrong directions.
1975DCS is offline  
Quote
Old 25 Nov 2018, 10:13 (Ref:3865679)   #7
Silhuette
Racer
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 126
Silhuette should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Ah ok. So you want to introduce production based engines? That would be a pretty radical move. I'm not sure anyone running a production based engine in WRX today?
Silhuette is offline  
Quote
Old 25 Nov 2018, 21:49 (Ref:3865858)   #8
1975DCS
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Netherlands
Posts: 755
1975DCS should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silhuette View Post
Ah ok. So you want to introduce production based engines? That would be a pretty radical move. I'm not sure anyone running a production based engine in WRX today?


AFAIK all engines are based around Road going production engine, despite being heavily tuned and modified. Of course current RX look the bizz and Rallycross have always been about modified cars. But some things are now discussed for costs while they are commonly available, that was my point.
1975DCS is offline  
Quote
Old 26 Nov 2018, 11:11 (Ref:3866021)   #9
crossfades
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Sweden
Posts: 957
crossfades should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1975DCS View Post
AFAIK all engines are based around Road going production engine, despite being heavily tuned and modified. Of course current RX look the bizz and Rallycross have always been about modified cars. But some things are now discussed for costs while they are commonly available, that was my point.
Direct-injection engines are expensive according to a friend of mine who has a lifetime of experience as a mechanic in rallying and rallycross, and plenty of those years in Supercars/Div 1. This decision was according to him a reasonable one.
crossfades is offline  
Quote
Old 29 Nov 2018, 06:31 (Ref:3866776)   #10
Silhuette
Racer
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 126
Silhuette should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
All the engines come from specialized builders and there are pretty much zero production parts in any current RX engine, unless you count the original starting point of the block and in some cases head casting.

I get the assumption that more production like engines will bring cost down, but that would probably require a drastic reduction in performance.

Last edited by Silhuette; 29 Nov 2018 at 06:36.
Silhuette is offline  
Quote
Old 2 Dec 2018, 16:26 (Ref:3867458)   #11
1975DCS
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Netherlands
Posts: 755
1975DCS should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silhuette View Post
All the engines come from specialized builders and there are pretty much zero production parts in any current RX engine, unless you count the original starting point of the block and in some cases head casting.

I get the assumption that more production like engines will bring cost down, but that would probably require a drastic reduction in performance.


I really doubt that: by banning the ALS you automatically reduce the sensible size of the turbo. Combined with a ditch in restrictor all decent engines are good for about 500 bhp. Engines have always been in the 500-700 bhp region, so not impossible by today's standards. It is the torque that has been up quite a bit and that introduces difficulties.
1975DCS is offline  
Quote
Old 6 Dec 2018, 17:55 (Ref:3868332)   #12
Silhuette
Racer
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 126
Silhuette should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Here's a take on the old Citroën engines Godfrey used to build. These are the kind of cheap, old style engines NordicX want to revert to.

https://www.racetuners.com/building-...ians-thoughts/

I don't really understand how starting with a DI engine block is going to have any impact on the build cost. According to the grapevine, a modern VW direct injection engine is more than twice the cost of the old Pipo engines PSRX used to run. And the Pipo engines would leave this one far behind.
Silhuette is offline  
Quote
Old 6 Dec 2018, 17:59 (Ref:3868334)   #13
1975DCS
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Netherlands
Posts: 755
1975DCS should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silhuette View Post
Here's a take on the old Citroën engines Godfrey used to build. These are the kind of cheap, old style engines NordicX want to revert to.

https://www.racetuners.com/building-...ians-thoughts/

I fail to see how starting with a DI engine block going to have any impact on the build cost. According to the grapevine, a modern VW direct injection engine is more than twice the cost of the old Pipo engines PSRX used to run. And the Pipo engines would leave this one far behind.


I am not saying we need DI engines. My point is that Kevlar and ALS are none existing on road going cars and subject to higher costs. With running high compression ratio as they currently do all costs go even more up...
1975DCS is offline  
Quote
Old 26 Jan 2019, 16:14 (Ref:3878811)   #14
crossfades
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Sweden
Posts: 957
crossfades should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Jere Kalliokoski will do the entire series season with an ex-STARD Ford Fiesta. Interesting quote; “I like competing on the RallyX Nordic tracks, especially Kouvola, and the series presents better value than Euro RX."

I wonder if there might be more drivers making the switch.

https://www.rallyx.se/2019/01/25/jer...yJ7CGnhQYwfosM
crossfades is offline  
Quote
Old 26 Jan 2019, 19:45 (Ref:3878907)   #15
FIRE
Race Official
Veteran
 
FIRE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Netherlands
Posts: 18,739
FIRE is going for a new world record!FIRE is going for a new world record!FIRE is going for a new world record!FIRE is going for a new world record!FIRE is going for a new world record!FIRE is going for a new world record!FIRE is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by crossfades View Post
Jere Kalliokoski will do the entire series season with an ex-STARD Ford Fiesta. Interesting quote; “I like competing on the RallyX Nordic tracks, especially Kouvola, and the series presents better value than Euro RX."
I can imagine his sponsors have more interest in racing in Finland/Sweden than far away in Europe.
Same for French drivers doing the French championship instead of ERX.
FIRE is offline  
Quote
Old 27 Jan 2019, 11:55 (Ref:3879543)   #16
crossfades
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Sweden
Posts: 957
crossfades should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by FIRE View Post
I can imagine his sponsors have more interest in racing in Finland/Sweden than far away in Europe.
Same for French drivers doing the French championship instead of ERX.
Seriously doubt that. Sponsors around here aren't that keen on exposure that they would rather want a driver competing in this series over ERX.

The last few seasons drivers have opted for Rally X Nordic mostly because of the lower costs and/or the more even levels of competitiveness.

The French Championship has a long history and is rooted in France whereas Rally X Nordic is a relatively new series that operates in Sweden and mostly revolves around Swedish competitors.
crossfades is offline  
Quote
Old 1 Feb 2019, 11:23 (Ref:3881097)   #17
crossfades
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Sweden
Posts: 957
crossfades should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by FIRE View Post
I can imagine his sponsors have more interest in racing in Finland/Sweden than far away in Europe.
Same for French drivers doing the French championship instead of ERX.
Good hunch. Philip Gehrman will compete in RallyX Nordic, citing that TV and media exposure for his sponsors was very motivating for them and one of the reasons why they made the switch from ERX. He will be driving an ex-WRX VW Polo.

https://www.rallyx.se/2019/02/01/phi...bCqKF08r2LehUs
crossfades is offline  
Quote
Old 1 Feb 2019, 11:42 (Ref:3881102)   #18
tbtstt
Veteran
 
tbtstt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
United Kingdom
Redhill, England
Posts: 3,704
tbtstt should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridtbtstt should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by crossfades View Post
Good hunch. Philip Gehrman will compete in RallyX Nordic, citing that TV and media exposure for his sponsors was very motivating for them and one of the reasons why they made the switch from ERX. He will be driving an ex-WRX VW Polo.

https://www.rallyx.se/2019/02/01/phi...bCqKF08r2LehUs
An ex-VW Motorsport Polo? So VW Motorsport have sold one of their World cars on?
tbtstt is offline  
Quote
Old 1 Feb 2019, 11:46 (Ref:3881104)   #19
crossfades
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Sweden
Posts: 957
crossfades should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbtstt View Post
An ex-VW Motorsport Polo? So VW Motorsport have sold one of their World cars on?
Presumably it's a Polo from Marklund. They actually built quite many cars.
crossfades is offline  
Quote
Old 1 Feb 2019, 12:03 (Ref:3881108)   #20
tbtstt
Veteran
 
tbtstt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
United Kingdom
Redhill, England
Posts: 3,704
tbtstt should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridtbtstt should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by crossfades View Post
Presumably it's a Polo from Marklund. They actually built quite many cars.
The artist impression in that article shows a Polo with no rear radiators...



...and the text (if accurate) would suggest a 2017 (Polo GTi) car.

I think a Marklund car is more likely though. If VW Motorsport were to sell a car it surely wouldn't be cheap!
tbtstt is offline  
Quote
Old 1 Feb 2019, 12:51 (Ref:3881116)   #21
crossfades
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Sweden
Posts: 957
crossfades should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbtstt View Post
The artist impression in that article shows a Polo with no rear radiators...



...and the text (if accurate) would suggest a 2017 (Polo GTi) car.

I think a Marklund car is more likely though. If VW Motorsport were to sell a car it surely wouldn't be cheap!
I usually don't look into to impressions that much since I have noticed many of them being based on WRC cars or cars that aren't representative of the car in question. I think this one may be another example of that.

I think it's impossible for a privateer to get a WRC or RX VW Motorsport Polo. Not even a Polo from before the regulation changes in WRC has been sold.
crossfades is offline  
Quote
Old 1 Feb 2019, 16:26 (Ref:3881161)   #22
1975DCS
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Netherlands
Posts: 755
1975DCS should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by crossfades View Post
I usually don't look into to impressions that much since I have noticed many of them being based on WRC cars or cars that aren't representative of the car in question. I think this one may be another example of that.



I think it's impossible for a privateer to get a WRC or RX VW Motorsport Polo. Not even a Polo from before the regulation changes in WRC has been sold.

True! And yeah bodywork suggested PSRX stuff, but doubt spo
1975DCS is offline  
Quote
Old 2 Feb 2019, 10:40 (Ref:3881295)   #23
chunder
Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
England
Stevenage
Posts: 8,298
chunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
I very much doubt it is one of the VW team cars of the last two years, before that maybe, but one of the recent cars would cost millions with the service backup required. And by all accounts there were basically run from VW anyway, so will be kept there.
chunder is offline  
Quote
Old 2 Feb 2019, 16:25 (Ref:3881355)   #24
crossfades
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Sweden
Posts: 957
crossfades should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Gehrman told a local newspaper that it was a Marklund Polo (although he referred to it as a manufacture car, don't know why) from 2016. Apparently they built five of them.
crossfades is offline  
Quote
Old 2 Feb 2019, 19:09 (Ref:3881384)   #25
FIRE
Race Official
Veteran
 
FIRE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Netherlands
Posts: 18,739
FIRE is going for a new world record!FIRE is going for a new world record!FIRE is going for a new world record!FIRE is going for a new world record!FIRE is going for a new world record!FIRE is going for a new world record!FIRE is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by crossfades View Post
Gehrman told a local newspaper that it was a Marklund Polo (although he referred to it as a manufacture car, don't know why) from 2016. Apparently they built five of them.
In 2016 the team raced under the VW Sweden banner, I assume that makes it a "factory" car.
FIRE is offline  
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
RallyX Nordic 2018 Coverage Now Online tbtstt Rallying & Rallycross 15 12 Oct 2018 13:51
Nordic heading for the century FEUsmart National & International Single Seaters 5 24 Aug 2001 08:00
Nordic vs SuperNova pink69 National & International Single Seaters 3 15 May 2001 18:51
All Nordic front row! Fiorentina 1 National & International Single Seaters 7 28 Apr 2001 22:04


All times are GMT. The time now is 19:57.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.