Alonso/Button vs Hamilton - Car Development - Page 2

**bjohnsonsmith** · 9 Oct 2011, 10:46 (Ref:2968010)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

But how long has it been since Jense was all of a sudden brilliant at helping develop/set up a car?

I seem to recall the reason he has Rubens alongside him at Honda was because he couldn't and Rubinho could plus they had Ant as test driver who apparently is pretty handy at understanding things?

I think it's like alot of things people develop differently and at different rates. Also in the case of Button maybe working at McLaren suits him better than when he was at Brawn? He's shown he's good with the tyre calls and therefore things have progressed to the stage that McLaren have seen his potential as a development driver and have encouraged this to good effect.

Wims · 9 Oct 2011, 15:01 (Ref:2968098)

How important is the drivers input when it comes to the development of cars these days? The sensoring technology have progressed a lot and is extremely accurate and precise these days, not to mention the simulators of course. I think the value of having a good driver for car development is vastly overrated. You dont go about doing engineering by feel, you do it by using math.

**bjohnsonsmith** · 9 Oct 2011, 16:26 (Ref:2968141)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wims

How important is the drivers input when it comes to the development of cars these days? The sensoring technology have progressed a lot and is extremely accurate and precise these days, not to mention the simulators of course. I think the value of having a good driver for car development is vastly overrated. You dont go about doing engineering by feel, you do it by using math.

I would have thought feel still plays a part, after all a simulator is just that, a simulator.

Marbot · 9 Oct 2011, 16:37 (Ref:2968148)

Having re-signed Button, McLaren's Paddy Lowe said:

"Having a good driver with good feedback is essential still in Formula 1 even though these days we have far more experience with offline tools, more simulations, etc."

"We are still very reliant on the driver's feedback and his responses to the changes we make, and indeed his suggestions to changes made."

**garcon** · 10 Oct 2011, 09:56 (Ref:2968539)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

I also agree with what others have said that the Jenson Button of 2011 is a completely different animal to the Jenson Button of 2004 for example.

Jenson himself has said he feels he is an infiniitely better driver now that when he won his title, let alone 2004.

It seems a lot has clicked with Jenson quite recently. I guess with some drivers it happens that way. I suspect he learnt a great deal about car set up and development at Brawn and has brought that knowledge into McLaren.

It's quite a late development he's had career-wise, when you consider that now - and depending what happens during the extended 2012 test calendar that is the last four races - you could quite conceivably say Button is likely to be Vettel's main threat next season.

**Bononi** · 10 Oct 2011, 12:13 (Ref:2968647)

Quote:

Originally Posted by garcon

Jenson himself has said he feels he is an infiniitely better driver now that when he won his title, let alone 2004.

It seems a lot has clicked with Jenson quite recently. I guess with some drivers it happens that way. I suspect he learnt a great deal about car set up and development at Brawn and has brought that knowledge into McLaren.

It's quite a late development he's had career-wise, when you consider that now - and depending what happens during the extended 2012 test calendar that is the last four races - you could quite conceivably say Button is likely to be Vettel's main threat next season.

Some guys are like wine, they get better with age...

wnut · 10 Oct 2011, 22:26 (Ref:2968965)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bononi

Some guys are like wine, they get better with age...

Too often in motorsport drivers seem to be written off by saying he was slower than x in his second season, Jenson is the proof that some of them develop!

It is great to see!

sparkione · 11 Oct 2011, 17:59 (Ref:2969437)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bononi

Well, like they said, Button is crucial for the future of McLaren... they must know something we don't.

They know a helluva lot you don't...

JeremySmith · 11 Oct 2011, 23:50 (Ref:2969570)

Quote:

Originally Posted by sparkione

They know a helluva lot you don't...

I am sure McLaren know many things we don't know, because we do not work there..

Sometimes I ask myself what is the point?

Marbot · 12 Oct 2011, 00:38 (Ref:2969582)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

Sometimes I ask myself what is the point?

And what is the answer?

JeremySmith · 12 Oct 2011, 00:48 (Ref:2969585)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marbot

And what is the answer?

There is no definitive answer....

**Bononi** · 12 Oct 2011, 01:14 (Ref:2969599)

...to everything !

**Bononi** · 12 Oct 2011, 01:14 (Ref:2969600)

...But all things must pass.

**bjohnsonsmith** · 12 Oct 2011, 01:22 (Ref:2969606)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

There is no definitive answer....

That depends on the question and the facts pertaining. 2 + 2 = 4 but as to whether the Universe will continue to expand or contract, there is no definitive answer, yet.

wnut · 12 Oct 2011, 03:06 (Ref:2969641)

Leading a team requires so much more than just one lap pace!
Here is a view of Button and Hamilton's respective relationships with the team at McLaren.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/form...e/15243571.stm

Mr V · 12 Oct 2011, 08:02 (Ref:2969729)

You can tell the season's basiclly wrapped up. The last 3 threads i've been in have concentrated on, Deep Purple, Peter Gabriel, Motorhead and Slayer, Mozart and his requiem, and 2 + 2 = 4 and that's the definitive answer

Time to think about hibernating for the off season soon me thinks

stripedcat · 12 Oct 2011, 08:57 (Ref:2969769)

Maybe Jenson can help McLaren with developing better mirrors for their car? Take a look at the following :-

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/111020...d-mirrors.html

Mirror, mirror, on the wall, who is the fastest of them all? Vettel, by miles it seems!

Marbot · 12 Oct 2011, 09:01 (Ref:2969770)

Head-up-displays. Proximity alarms. Driving lessons.

**garcon** · 12 Oct 2011, 10:26 (Ref:2969815)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bononi

...But all things must pass.

I believe the full quote is, "All things must pass Webber."

**Born Racer** · 12 Oct 2011, 11:11 (Ref:2969831)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr V

You can tell the season's basiclly wrapped up.

Ooh, I don't see it that way at all. I'm glad the inevitable Vettel championship has been done and dusted, because that way we can just watch Grands Prix rather than thinking about the championship. And there's four of them to come.

Marbot · 12 Oct 2011, 12:03 (Ref:2969863)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bononi

Some guys are like wine, they get better with age...

Whereas some guys whine better with age.

stripedcat · 12 Oct 2011, 12:07 (Ref:2969864)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marbot

Whereas some guys whine better with age.

Nah, I suspect Mansell was like that even in his younger days!

**Bononi** · 12 Oct 2011, 14:52 (Ref:2969943)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marbot

Whereas some guys whine better with age.

Speaking of...

Marbot · 12 Oct 2011, 15:42 (Ref:2969977)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bononi

Speaking of...

Thinking of......

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