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Old 13 Jun 2004, 13:17 (Ref:1002564)   #76
Francesca
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I don't think it's cool at all - Crash.net has always got my vote and wll continue to do so. Pop ups aren't a huge problem really are they? I'd rather have them than a charge!

Some people can't afford subscriptioins but why should they be denied access to motorsport news?
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Old 13 Jun 2004, 14:01 (Ref:1002591)   #77
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One thing with free news sites on the net though - many of them are run by enthusiasts who don't have the same level of accuracy as the professionals.
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Old 13 Jun 2004, 15:07 (Ref:1002629)   #78
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The Magazine 'Motorsport' is how Autosport used to be. Sadly Motorsport now only covers historic racing, but virtually every article is worth reading, even cars/series that you do not take that much interest in. Motorsport can provide a good few days solid reading, whereas you can read Autosport in a couple of hours these days, half that if you are not interested in F1.

Whats the betting next weeks magazine will dedicate 10+ pages to 'wonder kid' Button. Boring, Boring, Boring, Bor.....
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Old 13 Jun 2004, 15:07 (Ref:1002630)   #79
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The thing is Autosport isn't unique online. I suppose it gets close as one place to visit for BTCC,F1,Le Mans, IRL, WRC and CART news, but plenty of sites around that provide that coverage, generally better than online.

The way I see it, is your going to be more successful at a pay site, if you have something uniques. Thats something that Autosport doesn't really have. TBH I use to view Atlas all the time until it went Pay, but then started looking around and plenty of other sites about, so never subcribed to them and that will be the same with Autosport.

BUT, subsciption can work, look at DSC, really detailed coverage of all the sportscar series, even down to Belcar and alike, so there offering something quite different to other sites, and they are pretty quick with the news. Thats why DSC is the only site I pay to view. What ever floats your boat I suppose
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Old 13 Jun 2004, 15:10 (Ref:1002632)   #80
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Originally posted by bella
nononono, crash.net isn't free, it has STUPID ANNOYING POPUPS AND STUPID ANNOYING ADVERTS like that jaguar one that activates every time you roll the mouse over the window.

another thing that gets my goat , and the reason why I don't view Crash and other sites,anymore. Other places to find the news without these pop ups. get them out the way, or a advert banner on the site (which I dont mind) and thats not aproblem.

Autosport does this as well, mainly with Vodafone, Volvo etc
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Old 13 Jun 2004, 15:12 (Ref:1002635)   #81
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Autosport online is not a subscription site as such - it's free for the subscribers of the magazine.
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Old 13 Jun 2004, 15:34 (Ref:1002659)   #82
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Originally posted by Kicking-back
One thing with free news sites on the net though - many of them are run by enthusiasts who don't have the same level of accuracy as the professionals.
not strictly correct - I had a conversation with a high up member of staff at Autosport a while ago and was told that they often look at enthusiasts sites and pinch news from them!
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Old 13 Jun 2004, 15:37 (Ref:1002662)   #83
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Originally posted by Kicking-back
Autosport online is not a subscription site as such - it's free for the subscribers of the magazine.
If you don't subscribe to the mag then you would have to (if you wanted) subscribe to the website - therefore it IS a subscription site!
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Old 13 Jun 2004, 16:47 (Ref:1002694)   #84
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Originally posted by Francesca
If you don't subscribe to the mag then you would have to (if you wanted) subscribe to the website - therefore it IS a subscription site!
I have bought Autospurt every week since 1986, but have always chosen to buy it from my local newsagent because I feel better supporting them than Autospurts subscription dept. Therefore I am probably more loyal than most subscribers. Yet I dont get access to the site. Therefore I think I may have to consider stopping buying it if thats Autosports attitude.

I agree bring back the old days - I bought every copy from 74-86 bound a year ago and am still only at 1979 - absolutely fascinating and takes plenty more than half an hour to read a copy.
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Old 13 Jun 2004, 19:13 (Ref:1002799)   #85
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Ghinzani has a very good point. This makes it a subscription site.
Outside of the UK and Europe Autosport is a very expensive magazine and hard to get in many places. Direct airmail subscription costs a small fortune because it is a weekly and if its surface mail it is up to three months behind in some places. The decision they have made is regrettable but as has been pointed out most of the overseas people who regarded their site as their best and most reliable source of information will now look elsewhere.

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Old 13 Jun 2004, 20:12 (Ref:1002856)   #86
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Hi all,

It's interesting as always to read the feedback, particularly on such a contentious issue as charging for the use of our website.

I know I can't persuade everyone to sign up or to not abandon the magazine, much as I'd like to achieve that. But I would like to put a couple of points across, if possible.

Autosport.com has NOT, repeat NOT ever been just a diluted version of the magazine in web format. Yes, there was some magazine material on there to cross-promote the magazine with news stories that it had broken (we do still get scoops, y'know...). But it was always more than that. Autosport.com has always had a wealth of resources at its disposal, with journalists at almost all major motorsport events AND with access to boot. It offered plenty of material from F1, sportscars and WRC that never even reached the magazine, but in many ways, it could have done even more. And that's what charging is all about.

Why shouldn't we give it for free? Because we're a business. And we exist in a) an ever-tougher marketplace where magazines in general are concerned and b) an ever-tougher marketplace where 'start-yer-own' websites are concerned. So we've decided to harness those resources better and take on pay subscriptions sites who can't offer as good as service. Just because we're an 'established' name doesn't mean we shouldn't do that - in fact, it's a primary reason why we should.

So yes, we are charging. But what other website could have provided such in-depth coverage of the Le Mans 24 Hours? Not re-hashed press releases like you might get elsewhere, but a team of five journos on the ground, in shifts, in the Le Mans press office and providing up-to-the-minute news and interviews with the drivers as they emerged from the back of the pits complex? You wanted a one-on-one with Tom Kristensen? It was there. You wanted Colin McRae's first thoughts as he got out of his first stint in the Ferrari? It was there. NOT provided by manufacturers or rehashed television interviews, but provided by journalists (I know, I've just had two of them sleeping in the back of the car on the way home!).

The bottom line is that we're in a market. And we reckon that for less than 10 pence per day, the sort of motorsport coverage I've just described (not to mention the ever-increasing archive of classic reports from our back issues and great old Fifth Columns by Nigel Roebuck, to name a couple of extras) is great value. In any case, as has been pointed out, the website is also free to magazine subscribers who thus get the weekly fix plus the ability to tap into daily news and the archive.

I guess the market will dictate whether we're correct in our assessment or not.

Regards to all and keep the comments coming,

John
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Old 13 Jun 2004, 20:15 (Ref:1002860)   #87
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Good to hear you with that John.

Every success with it.

I've thought for a while the "start-your-own" motor-racing news websites tend to devalue the credibility of much of the stuff we see on the net, so it's good Autosport will continue to provide high quality.
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Old 13 Jun 2004, 20:16 (Ref:1002863)   #88
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Well done for speaking out John....
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Old 13 Jun 2004, 20:52 (Ref:1002897)   #89
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Well done for speaking out John....
Speaking out? against what? Social Injustice? The War in Iraq? this is'nt life or death stuff, its the lining of Haymarkets pockets. For too many years now Autospurt has held a position where it has too much power in shaping the publics view of drivers, teams etc This became even worse when Motoring News was brought under the same banner. Its almost a closed shop now. In the newspaper industry I would have thought this would attract a great deal of comment - for instance they brought in legislation to stop Murdoch buying up too many of the rags.

Why should a sport which provides so much money to the british economy be shaped by so few people? Over the years Marcus Pye, Marcus Simmons, Bruce Jones et al have had the ability to shape public opinion thru their reporting of drivers coming to the home of motorsport from their first formula ford race all the way thru to F1. So what would happen say if they took a particular dislike to a driver? For example Patrese - in the aftermath of the Monza 78 tragedy the Autosport view of him is markedly different to other drivers. Yet years later Nigel Roebuck was actually big enough to backtrack and say his view of Riccardo had been coloured by other drivers opinions.

So is it not a good thing that rivals to Autosports website take on the traffic from them , thus weakening their influence? For too long the level of journalism at Autosport has been far too safe. For instance wheres the investigative journalism in Autosport like one would get in the newspapers? Their "oh I did'nt know that was going on, what a surprise" attitude has encouraged racing to be a place where drug dealers launder money etc. In cases like Vic Lee, the guy who ran Vector Mick Goldney, Preston Henn, the Whittingtons or the Pauls it must have been obvious to all in the paddocks what was transpiring yet they chose not to dig deeper. Why not? to protect the industry as a whole? all they end up doing is making it a more attractive place for crooks to end up.

So I say good show that Autosports influence may wane - let it be taken up by others, they may not be as accurate only time will tell - but at least they wont be unafraid to be journalists. They wont be tied by the safe world in which Autosport operates.
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Old 13 Jun 2004, 21:07 (Ref:1002918)   #90
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I'm not here to defend Haymarket's profit margins - I'd let someone bigger and better tailored than me do that if they want to.

But I will defend our editorial values of the team we have in there (I see no reason why I shouldn't be allowed to do that?).

Yes, Autosport has had an influence on people's perceptions of drivers/teams/cars etc over the years. But that's a part of magazine and news print publishing - of any mass media, if you like (including, in recent years, the internet).

And if the people at the word processors didn't care then yes, there would be a problem. But they do care, so I don't see where the problem lies.

It's strange that you mention 'social injustice' in such irreverent tones when that seems to be the bone of contention within your reply. Whether or not Autosport has 'abused' its position or had 'too much influence' wasn't the point of my initial comment. It was down to the basics of whether it's worth spending under 10p under our website every day. Ho hum...

John

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Old 13 Jun 2004, 21:21 (Ref:1002935)   #91
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John....please put Nigel Roebuck back onto F1 race reports.

Could do with his witticisms to brighten up the season!
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Old 13 Jun 2004, 21:36 (Ref:1002944)   #92
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Whilst we're at it, Marcus Simmons back on F3!
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Old 13 Jun 2004, 22:10 (Ref:1002965)   #93
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I'm not here to defend Haymarket's profit margins - I'd let someone bigger and better tailored than me do that if they want to.
That's the best piece of word play I've seen in a while, John!

Quote:
Originally posted by ghinzani
In the newspaper industry I would have thought this would attract a great deal of comment - for instance they brought in legislation to stop Murdoch buying up too many of the rags.
Sorry old chap, you've got the wrong end of the stick there. The restrictions on Murdoch are to do with cross-media ownership, due to his domination of the satellite TV market in the UK. If he didn't control Sky he could theoretically buy as many papers as he wants, I think.
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Old 13 Jun 2004, 22:51 (Ref:1002988)   #94
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But what other website could have provided such in-depth coverage of the Le Mans 24 Hours?
You weren't aware of www.lemans.org then?
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Old 13 Jun 2004, 22:52 (Ref:1002989)   #95
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I seem to have stirred things up eh? I realise that 3 quid per month is not a huge price to pay, but I think that the website is used mainly get the latest info, not in depth reports as we expect to see in the magazine. You can't keep the webpages ( unless you download them), whereas the magazine can be retained for future reference and who knows you may find interesting items you missed on first reading. The two products are quite different, one we are willing to pay for, the other we won't, especially when there are so many other free websites providing the same info. So unless Autosport.com can provide something extra I still think they've made a bad move.
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Old 14 Jun 2004, 00:15 (Ref:1003024)   #96
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Even Autosports F1 coverage, for my taste, is far too focused on driver interviews and personalities instead of tech info etc. on the cars and series. [/B]
I said this earlier in the year (about Button). Glad I'm not the only one who thinks it!

I will watch this thread with great interest, as I am currently researching my own pay-per-view website (not F1/motorsport related.)I think it all comes down to content..If the content is good enough, people will pay, if not, they won't.
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Old 14 Jun 2004, 06:20 (Ref:1003138)   #97
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I have not logged on till this morning and I was surprised to see Autosport had gone to pay-to-view. I was a little disappointed really.
I feel it is a little hypocritical of them when only a couple of weeks ago Nigel Roebuck was commenting on how far detracted the world of F1 has become because of the cost of merchendise and all. Seems Autosport have gone down the same route, ignoring the general motorsport fan.
Hard core fans will no doubt pay for it, but like a number of you have commented, you can get most of the news from other web sites, and although it may not be at the highest quality I can still access all the info I want.
As an irregular user of internet and email, 10p a day is a waste of my money if I only go on a few times a month.
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Old 14 Jun 2004, 06:31 (Ref:1003144)   #98
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I'v been a bit disappointed, but so what, it didn't last long; they' just have lost a visitor.
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Old 14 Jun 2004, 08:39 (Ref:1003206)   #99
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Agree, put Nigel back on F1 reports, don't read them anymore I suppose I get about 1/2 to2/3rd of all Autosports each year, so subscription would cost me more money.

As already mentioned 10p a day is a waste for me, when I can find the stuff I want to know about on other free sites and only have a couple of minutes a day to look, and not every day.

Respect though for John coming on board and I understand his resoning, just doesn't work with my needs
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Old 14 Jun 2004, 09:39 (Ref:1003261)   #100
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Agreed. I have a lot of respect for John coming here and putting the case. I'm in two minds now and my opinion is firmly sitting on the fence.
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