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Old 15 May 2024, 09:07 (Ref:4209006)   #1
coppice
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HSCC Cadwell

A meeting I never miss, which has provided some wonderful racing for single seaters and much more. But dear oh dear, the grids are thin this year . A few years ago we had two heats and a final for FF1600 and big grids of sports and saloons. I can understand a diminution in some grids - lots of clubs are fishing in the same pool for races with Elans, Cortinas and so on but where have all the single seaters gone ? And why cant we see more sharing with other clubs if grids are small?

Half a grid's worth of FF1600 and nine - nine ! - Modsports. Come on..

I am not pointing a finger at HSCC but really - we have lot of racers in the UK , how do we tempt more out at the same meetings ?

I'll enjoy my weekend , it's Cadwell in May after all but I do hope for better .
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Old 15 May 2024, 09:55 (Ref:4209014)   #2
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I think that a considerable part of the problem about a lack of entries may well be down to the fact that a lot of people believe that they have far more financial needs rather than indulging in what can be a quite expensive hobby.
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Old 15 May 2024, 10:25 (Ref:4209017)   #3
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Well, yes , obviously that is true for some . But what I struggle to see is how CSCC gets 20-40 car grids , and so I believe does HRDC and CTRC , so why does HSCC struggle ?And where have the 50 plus FF1600s of a few years all gone- hibernating, waiting for 60th ?
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Old 15 May 2024, 11:13 (Ref:4209024)   #4
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This is a meeting I always attend at the wonderful Cadwell but looking at the entry list i'll be giving it a miss. There's been a lot of dissatisfied HSCC racers due to their pricing policy on entry fees which is clearly showing now.
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Old 15 May 2024, 11:23 (Ref:4209025)   #5
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Half a grid's worth of FF1600 and nine - nine ! - Modsports. Come on..

I am not pointing a finger at HSCC but really - we have lot of racers in the UK , how do we tempt more out at the same meetings ?
I don't find that some of the HSCC's entries are particularly surprising. For example, there is a quite a lot of cross-over between the Modsports and the CSCC's Special Saloons and Modsports, which are also racing at Thruxton this weekend. In this context, I'm not surprised by nine cars on the list. In addition, there does seem to be a bit a cycle between series that do well and those that are not. For instance, a few years ago, HSCC's Historic Touring Cars got good grids, whereas the CTCRC's Pre-66 series did not. This weekend, the latter series will pretty much have a capacity grid at Mallory, whereas the few HSCC cars are merged in with the Historic Roadsports.

However, things like Historic FF1600 don't really have an obvious home elsewhere (apart from racing against more modern cars), which suggests that there are some other issues at play as the rate of decline has been bigger than some other series.

I'm intrigued as to whether merging things is the solution - some drivers do seem to be deterred from racing in a more mixed grid. For instance, as you know, the MG Trophy is racing with the Jaguars this year. It's interesting to note that there are only six MGs on the entry list for Thruxton - which is a significant decrease on their average grid in 2023.
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Old 15 May 2024, 23:10 (Ref:4209102)   #6
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I don't find that some of the HSCC's entries are particularly surprising. For example, there is a quite a lot of cross-over between the Modsports and the CSCC's Special Saloons and Modsports, which are also racing at Thruxton this weekend. In this context, I'm not surprised by nine cars on the list. In addition, there does seem to be a bit a cycle between series that do well and those that are not. For instance, a few years ago, HSCC's Historic Touring Cars got good grids, whereas the CTCRC's Pre-66 series did not. This weekend, the latter series will pretty much have a capacity grid at Mallory, whereas the few HSCC cars are merged in with the Historic Roadsports.

However, things like Historic FF1600 don't really have an obvious home elsewhere (apart from racing against more modern cars), which suggests that there are some other issues at play as the rate of decline has been bigger than some other series.

I'm intrigued as to whether merging things is the solution - some drivers do seem to be deterred from racing in a more mixed grid. For instance, as you know, the MG Trophy is racing with the Jaguars this year. It's interesting to note that there are only six MGs on the entry list for Thruxton - which is a significant decrease on their average grid in 2023.


There are few, if any of the Modsports/Special Saloons racing at Thruxton this weekend that would be eligible, or are registered for, the HSCC series. So I don't think it's a potential clash of meetings which explains the turnout.

The HSCC series is still a relatively new series, so I guess they're hoping entries will build as the series gathers momentum. As far as I'm aware, this is the first year they've run it as a stand-alone race, so last year they were mixed in with other series and the low entries may have been less obvious.

As for mixed grids generally: I guess no one really likes them - I'm sure we'd all like to race in our own dedicated races, just against the other cars in our own respective series, but I guess we have to be realistic and pragmatic in our expectations. If any given series is regularly struggling to make double figures - in an age where a club possibly needs an average of 25 - 30 cars in every race just for a meeting to break even - then I suppose we just have to accept that we're going to be getting combined grids or face much higher entry fees?

Even the CSCC who, historically, have usually been able to muster enough entries for most series to get their own dedicated race have, in the last couple of years, been combining grids to get the numbers up enough to cover costs.

So, perhaps it's just a sign of the times: too many clubs offering too many series and chasing an ever dwindling pool of potential competitors? Maybe it's simply something we have to accept to move forwards, or we go and find one of those rare series that still has no problem mustering enough cars to fill a grid?
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Old 16 May 2024, 07:31 (Ref:4209126)   #7
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It just seems like dilution. Historic racing is where there are two things, a fair amount of cars and also a lot of money. hence we are where we are

Oh and also some fairly big ego's!
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Old 16 May 2024, 07:40 (Ref:4209130)   #8
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As a long term competitor at the back end of HSCC's Historic Road Sports may I add my concern about the current state of club racing, evidenced by declining grids, the forced amalgamation of disparate series (e.g HRS with HTC and, sometimes, with more modern front wheel drive saloon cars!), fragmented HSCC meetings and inexorably increasing entry fees. I suspect much of the malaise is due to MSV's escalating circuit charges and insistence on whole weekend bookings. Historic motor racing seems low down MSV's priorities - track days are obviously much more profitable.
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Old 16 May 2024, 07:59 (Ref:4209134)   #9
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Perhaps , but it's easy to blame a sitting target .Without track day income race fees would be higher .

What I struggle to accept is that the UK is blessed with some great circuits and a hell of lot of racing cars and drivers . There are more than enough circuits , cars and drivers for most weekends in the season to have race meetings with full grids . But so many organising clubs don't work with each other , but in competition. This leads to impoverished grids, less appeal for driver or spectator and lower gate takings.Put the right stuff on - VSCC , big bike meetings - and the people will come. But I am wondering if I will make a weekend of it next year - it was a fabulous meeting with big , overflowing grids very recently .

I was at CSCC Oulton on scribbling duty recently and what really struck me is the big appetite for historic racing (in fact racing generally) in Cheshire , with better crowds than just about any other circuit except Brands possibly. I know Cadwell is miles from anywhere , which apparently puts some off , but that is part of its appeal!
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Old 16 May 2024, 10:40 (Ref:4209151)   #10
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Perhaps , but it's easy to blame a sitting target .Without track day income race fees would be higher .

What I struggle to accept is that the UK is blessed with some great circuits and a hell of lot of racing cars and drivers . There are more than enough circuits , cars and drivers for most weekends in the season to have race meetings with full grids . But so many organising clubs don't work with each other , but in competition. This leads to impoverished grids, less appeal for driver or spectator and lower gate takings.Put the right stuff on - VSCC , big bike meetings - and the people will come. But I am wondering if I will make a weekend of it next year - it was a fabulous meeting with big , overflowing grids very recently .

I was at CSCC Oulton on scribbling duty recently and what really struck me is the big appetite for historic racing (in fact racing generally) in Cheshire , with better crowds than just about any other circuit except Brands possibly. I know Cadwell is miles from anywhere , which apparently puts some off , but that is part of its appeal!
You're right, CSCC is a case-study in how to do this successfully. Good mixed grids, a good social element and costs to a minimum. All wrapped up in the ethos that the entrant is the customer and to treat them accordingly. Alot of other series could take note of this rather obvious point - I race in HSCC and sometimes you get the impression that we are meant to say thank you for being afforded the experience despite having shelled out up to £800 (in the case of Brands GP).

For historic formula ford, they currently are struggling because of organisational issues - I believe that the club organisers have stepped down recently (others can correct me here). That has had a beneficial effect in classic formula ford where these cars are also eligible and where we got 29 on the grid at the last meeting. Alas, CFF aren't racing this weekend at Cadwell so this doesn't help the formula ford showing here.
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Old 16 May 2024, 10:42 (Ref:4209152)   #11
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Thruxton a couple of weeks ago had a 750 club meeting and opened the gates for free. There was a huge crowd for a basic club meeting with lots of first timers, families and youngsters enjoying the sun. Make the effort on publicity and people will come and come back. Be interesting to see what the crowd is like this Saturday,
If the club looks after its members properly and doesn’t rip them off it seems grids can be filled. HRDC always has good numbers, Modified Fords had over 40 at Combe last week, HTCRC have good grids. HSCC seems to have lost its way - Brands Hatch for a major meeting last year being a typical muddled and scrappy affair.
Good historic racing is basically club racing - I think the big fancy festivals and professional organisers will fade away quickly now and things will generally get better as a result.
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Old 16 May 2024, 10:43 (Ref:4209153)   #12
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It just seems like dilution. Historic racing is where there are two things, a fair amount of cars and also a lot of money. hence we are where we are

Oh and also some fairly big ego's!
Yes and No in terms of money! It really depends on the series - for many in formula ford, modpsorts, clubmans I think you will find that costs do count and this expensive pastime of ours suddenly feels really very expensive.

For those used to running more exotic stuff - the FIA GTs, F2 - then maybe less so but others will need to comment here.
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Old 16 May 2024, 16:48 (Ref:4209186)   #13
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I have said for years that there should not be any charge for punters to get into club meetings.

I know the reasons why and why not, but in basic terms it would probably encourage far more people to go and the venues might make more money from merch and food than they would charging 150 people to attend.
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Old 16 May 2024, 17:20 (Ref:4209189)   #14
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Just been looking at the entries for CSCC at Thruxton - where Paul D is out in the Modsports in his Elan - and its barely recognisable from when I raced with them only a couple of years ago......My Future Classics which was often a full grid, is down to 15, (and that includes 3 or 4 that would normally be in Swinging Sixties if they had been running), but now they are sharing with Paul's Special Saloons and Modsports - which means 2 x 15 minute races, rather than the usual 40 minutes - and also some huge speed discrepamcies. I have to say if I was still racing I wouldn't have been too happy with it.......and it probably explains the low entry



I know its easy with hindsight when you have the entries, but Future Classics have recently been combined with Modern Classics - a more comfortable mix, yet Moderns are combined with TinTops and Puma Cup in a race that has 8 reserves!



Sorry to have drifted a bit off-topic, but I think it is indicative when one of the most successful "Clubman" Clubs has to resort to dragging in an increasingly disparate group of race series - mostly with less than optimium grids.....
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Old 16 May 2024, 17:51 (Ref:4209196)   #15
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Could some of these entry issues be contributed to by the circuits, as much fun as Cadwell is to drive it’s terrible for facilities and not an easy place to drive to in the first place.
Thruxton although better to access again facilities are lacking and the lack of availability of testing in anything other than an electric car is going to put off some that haven’t had the opportunity to be on the track from years past.
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Old 17 May 2024, 06:01 (Ref:4209240)   #16
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Cadwell's relative isolation (for some ) is part of its charm . Facilities ? It has a cafe , a (wonderful ) track a paddock and some toilets. Job done.Unless you want dancing girls and a theme park
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Old 17 May 2024, 07:45 (Ref:4209250)   #17
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Cadwell is no different to the vast majority of tracks in fact it is probably as far away as Snetterton and a far nicer way to spend your afternoon, a far more interesting and challenging track aswell!

Facilities wise agreed the paddock is limited compared to some with no garages to speak of, but most amateur teams do not want or need those
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Old 17 May 2024, 12:57 (Ref:4209281)   #18
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Could some of these entry issues be contributed to by the circuits, as much fun as Cadwell is to drive it’s terrible for facilities and not an easy place to drive to in the first place.
...................................
In dunno, I've had some pretty enjoyable and boozy nights in Louth which made qualifying the next day "interesting". And the Admiral Rodney in Horncastle was always pleasant.
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Old 17 May 2024, 16:06 (Ref:4209306)   #19
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Much as I will enjoy this weekend at Croft, I prefer the charm and better facilities of Cadwell. With regard to low HSCC entries, one pre66 saloon driver told me at last year’s HSCC Croft Nostalgia that CTCRC offered better value, and he intended to race with them.
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Old 19 May 2024, 06:24 (Ref:4209465)   #20
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Eddy Nice to meet you yesterday. Sorry to give you a fright, and glad
I your car is okay!
Have a good day, looks sunny
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Old 19 May 2024, 12:48 (Ref:4209493)   #21
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Still a thread hijack, but Congrats to Paul D who after a 12th overall and second in class in his first race was 3rd overall and 2nd in class in the second race. And 2nd overall if you just count the Modsports race...... Well done!
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Old 20 May 2024, 06:23 (Ref:4209632)   #22
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Thinnish grids apart, a lovely weekend at Cadwell which was looking at its glorious best. And lost of kindred spirits .
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Old 20 May 2024, 10:54 (Ref:4209652)   #23
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Thinnish grids apart, a lovely weekend at Cadwell which was looking at its glorious best. And lost of kindred spirits .

"lots" I hope
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Old 20 May 2024, 16:29 (Ref:4209705)   #24
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I was there on Saturday - enjoyed the racing, despite some low grids...
Here's a few pics...
Attached Thumbnails
DSC038960014.jpg   DSC041530091.jpg   DSC041660095.jpg  

DSC044340134.jpg   DSC048640237.jpg   DSC052580315.jpg  

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Old 20 May 2024, 16:35 (Ref:4209711)   #25
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Good shots there, thank you.
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