[WEC] LMP Future Regulations (was Le Mans EVO rules - now hypercar rules)

[chernaudi]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

That would be correct,I was thinking of Palmer there. I don't know if David King has any share of the company.

I'm just guessing on King, though I'd suspect that such info can be found if one wants to look for it. AM is technically a PLC (UK public company) the past couple of years after being a Ltd company (UK private limited company, comparable to either a LLC or a privately held incorporated company here), and I'd assume that info on major share/stake holders can be found (I don't have much interest in look up stuff on stock markets and such, though).

But Palmer def. seems to be a significant stake holder with AM, even when it was still a private company when he first joined the management.

So it seems that if AM's board wants to fire him or force him to resign, that'll be hard even if the public share holders are on board because of the ownership stake.

In other words, like what Porsche/VAG did with Wendelin Wiedeking when they paid him to resign and retire, I'm betting that's what it'd take for Andy Palmer to be removed at AM.

[hondafan37]

The FIA has approved the “general principles” of prototype convergence between the World Endurance Championship and IMSA WeatherTech SportsCar Championship.
The FIA stated that parameters such as power, aero and weight will be aligned for the two platforms in order ensure both cars will operate in the same performance window.
https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...e-convergence/

Does this announcement mean that the weight will be closer to 950 kg of the current DPI?
I suppose the Aston Martin retreat made ACO rethink that the 1100 kg didn't make much sense.
With 950 Kg: will less power be required? Could Glikenhaus use the Alfa Romeo V6 then?

[broadrun96]

You have to think it's easier to balance at the current weights, plus the cost of the hybrid systems, than add enough ballast for a car that's not running now.

I'm guessing Glickenhaus is down the path of the new engine far enough to stick with the current engine. Sad, cause having an Alfa engine on the grid would be cool. But there's time

[Napolis]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

You have to think it's easier to balance at the current weights, plus the cost of the hybrid systems, than add enough ballast for a car that's not running now.

I'm guessing Glickenhaus is down the path of the new engine far enough to stick with the current engine. Sad, cause having an Alfa engine on the grid would be cool. But there's time

Hi
More information soon but in the meantime a hint on our Glickenhaus 007 Hypercar engine. Derived from a very successful WRC Turbo 4.
3.8L Flat Crank TT V8 making 870 HP at the crank.
Best
Jim

[Mike E]

Ooh, exciting.

[Mike E]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

The FIA has approved the “general principles” of prototype convergence between the World Endurance Championship and IMSA WeatherTech SportsCar Championship.
The FIA stated that parameters such as power, aero and weight will be aligned for the two platforms in order ensure both cars will operate in the same performance window.
https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...e-convergence/

Does this announcement mean that the weight will be closer to 950 kg of the current DPI?
I suppose the Aston Martin retreat made ACO rethink that the 1100 kg didn't make much sense.
With 950 Kg: will less power be required? Could Glikenhaus use the Alfa Romeo V6 then?

My first thought was a weight increase for DPi to get up to the LMH weight. Maybe a compromise?

[Napolis]

Originally Posted by Mike E

My first thought was a weight increase for DPi to get up to the LMH weight. Maybe a compromise?

Compromise often works nicely...

[Mike E]

Aha!

[carbsmith]

LMH isn't dropping the weight limit 150kg 6 months before they start racing.

I alluded to this all before, right now DPi goes a decent bit north of 950kg depending on BoP anyways, then you're adding a hybrid system, and then if the next gen LMP2 cars are going to be much slower than the current ones you may as well raise the minimum weight to make them cheaper to build, so it's not hard to end up in the 1100kg range.

[TF110]

I think a compromise of 1000kg would be easy. There's no way the cars are going to be 1100kg naturally. They all make them lighter than what they need to be so they can play with the ballast positioning.

[Napolis]

https://autosprint.corrieredellospor...i_glickenhaus/

Glickenhaus theorem:

Race cars

Racing cars are not created from numbers or calculations, they are inspired by the beautiful things you see in your life.
They come from Michelangelo's David.
They are suggested from nights in Paris.
You conceive them the first time while you are speeding through Lower Manatthan on a Cigarette motorboat.
They flow while listening to a John Kennedy speech.
You feel them in the American anthem “The Star Spangled Banner“ performed by Jimi Hendrix.
You perceive them in Sergio Leone's "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly".
In the tremor that has the face of your newborn child.
In the return home of the daughter you thought you had lost.
Race cars are born from the texts of Bob Dylan.
From "Imagine" by John Lennon.
From the book "My terrible joys" by Enzo Ferrari.
They spring from the eyes of your one true love.

[Mike E]

So, after the Aston fall out, is this the situation?

LMDh and LMH are to be aligned regarding weight, power, aero.

If you don't want to spend money developing a chassis you can buy one from one of the approved LMP2 constructors, make it look a bit like your road car and drop whatever engine you want into it.
Will you have to run a standard hybrid system?

If you don't want to run someone else's chassis for philosophical or marketing reasons, you can build your own, as Toyota and Glickenhaus are doing.
Hybrid optional.

If you're a privateer, what can you do?
Will the LMP2 constructors offer standard bodywork?
What about hybrid?

Answers on a postcard to the usual address please.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Mike E

So, after the Aston fall out, is this the situation?

LMDh and LMH are to be aligned regarding weight, power, aero.

If you don't want to spend money developing a chassis you can buy one from one of the approved LMP2 constructors, make it look a bit like your road car and drop whatever engine you want into it.
Will you have to run a standard hybrid system?

If you don't want to run someone else's chassis for philosophical or marketing reasons, you can build your own, as Toyota and Glickenhaus are doing.
Hybrid optional.

If you're a privateer, what can you do?
Will the LMP2 constructors offer standard bodywork?
What about hybrid?

Answers on a postcard to the usual address please.

The only part that seems to be clear is LMDh will have to homologated by IMSA and be approved under their regs. It appears it will be more Mazda like bodywork, and a mild hybrid off the shelf unit. I would guess a commensurate weight gain and suspension build up for the hybrid packaging.And then whatever engine you can convince IMSA aligns with your streetcar lineup, we're all waiting for that MZR-R turbo to cause more road car fires, I mean make a sweet new Mazdaspeed product.

[Napolis]

Originally Posted by Mike E

So, after the Aston fall out, is this the situation?

LMDh and LMH are to be aligned regarding weight, power, aero.

If you don't want to spend money developing a chassis you can buy one from one of the approved LMP2 constructors, make it look a bit like your road car and drop whatever engine you want into it.
Will you have to run a standard hybrid system?

If you don't want to run someone else's chassis for philosophical or marketing reasons, you can build your own, as Toyota and Glickenhaus are doing.
Hybrid optional.

If you're a privateer, what can you do?
Will the LMP2 constructors offer standard bodywork?
What about hybrid?

Answers on a postcard to the usual address please.

We will offer customer cars complete for $2MM euros.
We will also engineer bespoke body work if you want it and engineer
any engine that fits .
Running costs and spare costs will be low.
Car is good for 5 years under Hypercar Rules.
We've sold one customer car so far. Have other inquirers and other manufactures interested.

[Mike E]

OK, so that's an additional variation. A hypercar with bespoke bodywork and engine. Is that a way of getting around the hybrid requirement in LMDh?

PS: good to hear you have sold a car.

[Napolis]

Originally Posted by Mike E

OK, so that's an additional variation. A hypercar with bespoke bodywork and engine. Is that a way of getting around the hybrid requirement in LMDh?

PS: good to hear you have sold a car.

Hybrid is more complex. Batteries weigh a lot. Rules don't allow use in rain or below 120kph . We see no advantage. We can easily make lower weight
IMSA desires and our Pipo engine can make 870 HP at the crank and is strong enough to be fully stressed and carry suspension. We're happy.

[chernaudi]

Some DPI/LMDH/LMP Hypercar regs got released today. Main ones being approx 650-700bhp engine power (no word on hybrids) and a minimum weight of 1030kgs across all variations of the class.

[Mike E]

The press release says 500kW peak power for LMDh, being ICE and hybrid combined. That's 670bhp.

https://www.lemans.org/en/news/aco-i...vergence/53710

[joeb]

Great to see something being released. I wonder what that power to weight ratio means for laptimes? Has to be slower that current P1, but will it be slower than current P2? And what does this mean for next gen P2, P3, and GT?

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by joeb

Great to see something being released. I wonder what that power to weight ratio means for laptimes? Has to be slower that current P1, but will it be slower than current P2? And what does this mean for next gen P2, P3, and GT?

taking as reference current lmp2 performances, extra weight will be compensated by extra hybrid power, better tyres and likely better and improved aero.
I could expect a 3.20 - 3.22 range for LM.

[Mike E]

670bhp is about what Gibson's 4.5 litre LMP1 engine makes, but without the torque boost of a hybrid system.
LMP2 will be slowed with a rev limit and hard, spec tyres.
And I guess LMH will retain its bloated 1100kg weight limit and make more power.

[chernaudi]

Still don't like the quasi spec chassis (LMP2 based) and I'd rather see teams be able to build their own cars from scratch and have the option of building a customer car to their specs.

Sadly, the car makers (outside of Toyota and Glickenhaus) are pushing for this, and they're getting their way. At least this will hopefully put more cars on the grid.

There's also questions on if Toyota's and Glickenhaus' cars will be eligible for IMSA.

But Porsche has confirmed that they're looking at a LMDH program for both IMSA and WEC.

[carbsmith]

Originally Posted by Mike E

And I guess LMH will retain its bloated 1100kg weight limit and make more power.

Pruett's article implies it's a meeting in the middle on power/weight for both classes but I don't see anything like that in the others.

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2020/0...-released.html

Meanwhile, IMSA will welcome LMDh cars while being open to LMH participation from mainstream automotive manufacturers once performance at IMSA circuits can be further validated. It therefore appears that boutique brands (such as Glickenhaus and ByKolles) will not be eligible to race in IMSA and therefore not feature at its major races such as the Rolex 24 and Sebring 12 Hours.

Thanks again IMSA

[Mike E]

Surely after we get out of this lock down they should be welcoming all and sundry.

[GT6]

After this ends we will be so starved of motor racing we will watch anything race as long as it has a real engine and not a battery