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Old 8 Nov 2006, 15:39 (Ref:1760989)   #16
Robert_R
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Sorry for dropping in slightly off-topic, but Chris mentioned the "F1R" in one of his posts. What is it - a kind of registry or a motorsport magazine?

I have just recently purchased a BT15 (F3-21-65, AM 50 J). Since I don't have any early history, I would of course be very interested what "F1R" has to tell about my car.

Robert
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Old 8 Nov 2006, 16:01 (Ref:1761000)   #17
Chris Townsend
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Robert

F1R is shorthand for Formula One Register, an excellent association of enthusiasts that has, since the 1960s, been recording results and observing car details at events well beyond F1. Most of its publications are out of print, though a fair number of us on this forum have copies of some, and use these volumes to support and extend our own observations.

If F1R has faults it is that sometimes the proof reading in their volumes is not all it should be [so some names and possibly chassis numbers are suspect] and there is in particular a tendency in the 1970s to extrapolate, so that if a chassis number is recorded against a particular driver at one race that stays with him until another car is recorded.

None of the F1R books on F3 in the mid 60s that I'm using has any mention of your chassis number, though there are a number of BT15s that appear without number. Ted Walker, acknowledged expert on all things Brabham, may be able to offer some help, or ex Brabham employee Denis Lupton.

At the moment there are nine BT15s from 1965 that I can't associate to specific owners/drivers
There are ten drivers I can't associate to cars in 1965
Manfred Mohr [though I think this may be him renting Dubler's car]
Walter Habbeger
Jorgen Ellekaer
Egert Haglund
Picko Troberg
Patrick Dal Bo
Rollo Feilding
Mike Loasby
Cliff Haworth
Martin Slater

[John could you move this to BT15 at an appropriate time, and I think it's probably time to put BT16 into the chassis history archive]

Chris
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Old 8 Nov 2006, 16:04 (Ref:1761001)   #18
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F1R is the Formula 1 Register who published a series of books from the mid-1970s covering Formula 1, Formula 2, Formula 3, Formula Junior (I think) and even Formula 5000. Their work is excellent and groundbreaking but suffers a couple of weaknesses: that sources for their knowledge are not shown and that car identification is sometimes extrapolated from a single sighting to a whole season.

Because of these issues, Wolfgang Klopfer, Chris Townsend and I reworked Formula 5000 completely from original sources. I had already done the 1966-1985 period of F1 completely independently and Chris has now started to do F2 from original sources as well.

We do use F1R sources for some things, notably recently the chassis numbers they give in their F3 books as these are noted only for certain races, making us confident that they were contemporary observations.

Allen

PS Chris has beaten me to it!
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Old 9 Nov 2006, 07:22 (Ref:1761398)   #19
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Hi Allen and Chris,

thanks for explaining the meaning of F1R to me! And also for checking the unknown BT15s in the F1 Register.

My new car has spent most (or all?) of its life in Sweden. Some of the driver's names which you listed sound very Swedish, so one of them might have been the first owner of F3-21-65. Picko Troberg is still active as a team boss, but he doesn't seem to remember anything of those old days. I have been in contact with Jöran Hedberg, who compiled a comprehensive list of F3 results from Scandinavia, but the data from the sixties is mostly lacking chassis numbers.

Unfortunately the previous ownerhip list in the FIA papers starts only in 1969:

1969-70: Bo Elvang
1970-71: Ove Jacobsson
1971-74: Antoni Chlapowski
1974-94: Bengt Ljungberg
1994-06: Christer Lofthammar

I would really love to find out about the years from 1965-69. The seller told me that in those years Frank Williams used to bring over cars to Sweden, raced them for a few events and then sold them to local drivers. So their might be a slight chance that my car was one of those... but this is only guessing.

Regards, Robert
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Old 18 Nov 2006, 09:20 (Ref:1769041)   #20
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allenbrown should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridallenbrown should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Denis has reminded me () that he sent me a spec sheet on these cars earlier this year. The main differences are:

BT16 - SCA, Hewland Mk 7, 1300 series driveshafts, 18 gallons held in two side tanks

BT15 - MAE (or Holbay R65), Hewland Mk 6, 1100 series driveshafts, 7 gallon seat tank

BT14 - twin cam, Hewland Mk IV (optional Mk 5), 1300 series driveshafts, 7 gallon seat tank

Wheels and chassis dimensions are the same. Simon has volunteered (I think that's the right word!) to help me recognise the minor chasis differences around the rear but he's confident that the frames had to be made slightly differently by AM.

These details are also on the other two relevant threads.

Allen
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Old 20 Nov 2006, 06:22 (Ref:1770060)   #21
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BT15

In reference to the number of Repco Brabham car's produced in 1965,
Jack's article in Motor Racing June 1965,p242 say's--
So far this year we have delivered 35 single seater's to customer's.
Unfortunately,we are being held up for engines,otherwise we could be pushing along much faster.The supply of some other components is also difficult. and Ron Tauranac spends half of his days on the phone trying to urge deliveries.--
Jack would probably have written this in May, for the June issue of the magazine,so this article gives an indication of the number's of cars involved
also it specifically say's 'to customer's' so work's car's should be added to
these figures.
Denis
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Old 20 Nov 2006, 21:49 (Ref:1771035)   #22
Denis Lupton
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BT15's

This post should have been prior to the previous post,but better late than never. In the January 1965 issue of Motor Racing, Jack writes,----
The only embarrassment we have at the moment is that we have orders for
15 F2 cars, and we are going to be working at full stretch to make them all.
On top of this we've got about the same number of F3 cars on order,so with all this and our GP machines,we are beginning to look tight around the seam's. Our F3 sar's for 1965 has basically the same chassis as the F2, and
there is now a lot more interchangeability between the two. This has ,I'm
afraid, made the F3 a little bit more expensive,but our approach is that if you want to win races in F3 you have to provide the best. We are not
really interested in the cheap, off the shelf,rear of the field banger; our aim is to build car's which win races.---
This gives an insight into the Brabham philosophy,also the BT15--BT16
relationship.
Denis
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Old 25 Nov 2006, 19:59 (Ref:1774894)   #23
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BT15 Jim Johnstone, Doc Willoughby

Late last month this query was posted by Alan Brown

Other hill climbing BT15s include the supercharged 1100 cc versions of Doc R A Willoughby and Jimmy Johnstone (later to Chris Dowson) - I assume these were different cars. Does anyone know their identities?

Yes they are one in the same and the identity is F3-25-65

This car started life as the Radio London car driven primarily by Keith St John, but also by Tony Lanfranchi. I am not entirely sure who owned it at this time, but suspect that it was Ken Sheppard of Customised Sportscars, Shenley. The car did 11 meetings in 65, 14 in 66 and 2 in 67. After Keith started to race a BT18, the car was driven a twice by his fiancee, Liane Engeman and lastly by Sheppard, (these are included in above). I think I worked it out, the car had 15 top 6 finishes in its first 23 events.

It was sold by David Hepworth Racing as a roller to Jim Johnstone Oct 67. Jim still had the original receipt for this transaction, and has given me a copy of it. Jim then fitted the supercharged 1100cc Ford engine and Mk5 Hewland from his Lotus 18 to the car. The gearbox is still in it today. Jim then used the car 15 times between March and September 1968 for 7 class wins and 8 top ten finishes. It then went to Chris Tipping who used it briefly on the track with a Ford twin-cam in 1969 before selling it to Roger "Doc" Willoughby back in supercharged 1100cc form.

Roger competed with it 1970 through 73 when it was sold to 3 mates, Chris Dowson, David Lee and Keith Holbrow. In 1976 it was sold to Pat Keogh who has a nasty accident with it at Prescott and the car was badly damaged against a tree and Pat receiving critical injuries. The wreck passed to Charles Adrian's hands and was patched up and a pushrod crossflow installed. In 1984 it was bought by David Hill and brought to Australia. In the early 1990s David obtained an MAE for it and got an Historic logbook, and I purchased it in this form in 2003, and immediately commenced a full rebuild.

I drove the car 3 times as an MAE F3 screamer, but after doing research into the car, and finding it ran with a twin-cam, I decided to put it to this form. It has now had around 6 meetings in its 1969 Chris Tipping form, and the car is a joy to drive.

Ed Holly

Last edited by edholly; 25 Nov 2006 at 20:05.
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Old 26 Nov 2006, 11:12 (Ref:1775224)   #24
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BT15 engines

Quote:
Originally Posted by allenbrown

... BT15 - MAE (or Holbay R65), Hewland Mk 6, 1100 series driveshafts, 7 gallon seat tank...

Allen
To quote further from the factory sheet's price list:

BT15-chassis: 1,400 Pounds
Cosworth MAE engine: 600 Pounds
Holbay R65 engine: 625 Pounds

Would be interesting to know how many were sold as bare chassis, and how many with each engine.

Furthermore, can anyone explain the main differences between the two engines? I assume the were both based on the Anglia block. Were the differences limited to modifications made to the head, or anything else?

The engine in my car wears a Holbay script on the valve cover, and the casting in the block says 109E6015 B.

Regards, Robert
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Old 27 Nov 2006, 12:56 (Ref:1775904)   #25
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F3-25-65

Many thanks to Ed Holly for identifying the hill climb car. This illustrates, so well, the vast amount of detail that this forum unearths.

Alan Brown
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Old 11 Dec 2006, 02:04 (Ref:1787354)   #26
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Bt15 F3-3-66

F3-3-66 was a film star,sold to the film company that made the film" a Man and a Woman" starring Jean Louis Trintignant and Anouk Aimee,directed by
Claude Lelouch. The star was a racing driver,who goes to Montlery to drive
F3-3-66, a BT15.The film was most successful,and in the 1966 Academy Awards won --
1 Best actress Nominee Anouk Aimee
2 Best Director Nominee Claude Lelouch
3 Best Original Screenplay
4 Best Foreign Film
and Jack won the world Championship,although not in F3-3-66.
She was then sold to Fred Opert,to--
Bob Brown, back to Opert, then to --
Harry Reynolds, then (I think)traded back to Opert on
BT29-25, Uncle Harry being successful in both Brabham,s.
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Old 13 Dec 2006, 03:32 (Ref:1789526)   #27
Denis Lupton
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Bt 15 Am 32

This BT15 was raced raced in 1965 by Mike Loasby,quite successfully, as a
private entrant.Photo p234,A S August 6/65 Not much is known about the car after early 1966 through to early 70's in the USA.Probably bought by a dealer, Fred Opert springs to mind,
Then to---
1974--1978 Jack.O. Nelson
1978--1981 Bruce Harrington
1981--1986 David Dexter
1986--1987 Greg Goser
1987 Steve Pike
1988--2006 Patrick Ryan Melbourne Australia.
Interesting to know if anybody can fill in some of the empty spaces for
this BT15. Grateful for any help at all.
Cheers Denis
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Old 13 Dec 2006, 07:47 (Ref:1789631)   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denis Lupton
F3-3-66 was a film star,sold to the film company that made the film" a Man and a Woman" starring Jean Louis Trintignant and Anouk Aimee,directed by
Claude Lelouch. The star was a racing driver,who goes to Montlery to drive
F3-3-66, a BT15.The film was most successful,and in the 1966 Academy Awards won --
1 Best actress Nominee Anouk Aimee
2 Best Director Nominee Claude Lelouch
3 Best Original Screenplay
4 Best Foreign Film
and Jack won the world Championship,although not in F3-3-66.
She was then sold to Fred Opert,to--
Bob Brown, back to Opert, then to --
Harry Reynolds, then (I think)traded back to Opert on
BT29-25, Uncle Harry being successful in both Brabham,s.
Hi Denis

So F3-3-66 was a BT15, not a BT18?

Allen
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Old 14 Dec 2006, 03:18 (Ref:1790259)   #29
Denis Lupton
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Bt15 F3-3-66

G'day Alan
This car had short rear uprights, whilst BT18's had long uprights. Also
Harry Reynolds said it's a BT15 'and you never argue with Uncle Harry.'
Regards Denis
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Old 17 Dec 2006, 17:06 (Ref:1792932)   #30
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Bt15 F3-3-66

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denis Lupton
F3-3-66 was a film star,sold to the film company that made the film" a Man and a Woman" starring Jean Louis Trintignant and Anouk Aimee,directed by
Claude Lelouch. The star was a racing driver,who goes to Montlery to drive
F3-3-66, a BT15.

Hi Denis
So F3-3-66 was a BT15, not a BT18?
Allen

Hi Denis,

having a look at the movie, the car is equipped with a twin carb'd engine. I assume that didn't conform with the F3 rules at that time?

Regards, Robert
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