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Old 12 Jun 2007, 23:20 (Ref:1935554)   #61
edholly
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Tim,

I am the owner of your Dad's BT15 ..... F3-25-65 ..... here in Australia. I have put together a lengthy History file on the car, including it's time with your Father. I am happy to share with you, and maybe you can add to that part where your Dad owns it. The car now has a Lotus twincam engine as it was in 1969 with Chris Tipping, 2nd owner before your Dad. It is still very competative, we came second outright and won the Racing Car section of the combined Sports Racing Car and Racing Car race on it's last outing at Eastern Creek in a 18 car field. Will send you an email .... Ed
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Old 3 Sep 2007, 12:34 (Ref:2002561)   #62
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BT15 wheel sizes

Sorry for posting this non-chassis history related question:

I have applied for a HTP for my BT15 (F3-21-65) at our german motorsport authority, DMSB.

Regarding the wheel sizes, I tried to get two sizes in the HTP:

1. The original wobbly web wheels currently on my car (7x13" front, 9x13" rear).

2. In addition, the sizes which are commonly in historic F3 today, for example the F3 Historic European Trophy or the German Open series (8x13" front, 10x13" rear).

The DMSB, six months after I sent them my complete application form, now asked me if I could bring a proof that this larger size has been used between 1965 and 1970 on a BT15 in an international race. Otherwise they wouldn't accept this size. Do you think there is a chance to get such evidence? Or does it make more sense simply to stick to the 7 and 9 inch wheels for the HTP?

Thank you and best regards,

Robert
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Old 7 Sep 2007, 07:54 (Ref:2005876)   #63
James Murray
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I would say for HTP purposes leave the wheel sizes at 7" and 9" and run 8" & 10" after you have received the papers. The series organiser won't mind if that's what everyone else is running.
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Old 1 Oct 2007, 09:13 (Ref:2027673)   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Murray
I would say for HTP purposes leave the wheel sizes at 7" and 9" and run 8" & 10" after you have received the papers.
James, you are probably right - that's what I will do. After some researching it seems impossible to find an 'evidence' for these wheel sizes being raced in international events back then, anyway.

Regards, Robert
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Old 3 Nov 2007, 05:32 (Ref:2058415)   #65
Denis Lupton
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More BT15's

Some more American BT15 owner/driver's to research, early 1970's,

Gerry Wilson, Prairie Village, Kansas
Charles Grauel, Kansas City, Kansas
Bill Shurtleff, West Palm Beach, Florida

and into the '80's and '90's,

Duane Capps, Larkspur, Colorado
Mike Donaldson, ? , California
Peter Sachs, ?
John Stokes, Lincoln, Nevada
Neil Kelly, St Paul, Minnesota
Mel Wentzel, Rye, New York

Denis
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Old 3 Nov 2007, 07:35 (Ref:2058454)   #66
Chris Townsend
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Denis

the Gerry Wilson car was BT15 F3.18.65, sold to Tom Watson in Kansas in 1969 then to Wilson, and to Al Essig 1972 who wrecked the car at Lake Garnett. The plate only was for sale on ebay a year or two back.

Chris
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Old 4 Nov 2007, 05:49 (Ref:2059091)   #67
Stevewood
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F3-18-65

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Townsend
Denis

the Gerry Wilson car was BT15 F3.18.65, sold to Tom Watson in Kansas in 1969 then to Wilson, and to Al Essig 1972 who wrecked the car at Lake Garnett. The plate only was for sale on ebay a year or two back.

Chris
Hi all,

I've been finally moved to join this forum.

It seems that as the years go by I have less and less of F3-18-65!

Yes I do have the chassis plate. But also the chassis with correct AM number, suspension, body and ancillary parts and fittings from the car.

Al Essig also sent me original Brabham paperwork and set-up sheets as well as numerous photos, including pics of the car after the accident that darn near killed him. (Car bent in two like the famous shot of Stirling Moss' Lotus 21 at Goodwood in '62).

Chris, I have details of original chain of owners '65-67, but did not know about the Jerry Wilson connection. Can anyone confirm this, and who he bought it from? I have tried tracking down Tom Watson but without success to date.

I hopes this info helps to settle the where-abouts of F3-18-65

Look forward to talking with you all in the near future.

Regards,
Steve W
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Old 12 Nov 2007, 00:14 (Ref:2065327)   #68
Denis Lupton
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BT15's

Regarding the 58 total of BT15's built, I always had a feeling of more than
one large order (8 for Fangio, Auto Club Argentina) for this model.
Talking with some friend's at lunch the other day,I was reminded of David McKay's articles in Modern Motor in the '60's,with new's of happening's at
MRD,and McKay said some car's had been sold to Honda.
That evening,reading Mike Lawrence's book for the umteenth time,Page 74 states;
"Honda also placed an order for 8 cars for their racing school. These were basically F3 chassis fitted with tuned Ford engines - they were Formula Ford cars before Formula Ford was invented."
As Ron T. was in Japan, at Honda's request,in or around October/November
1965,and had the order for 8 cars ,it appears that the BT15 was the model
supplied,which help's cover some of the production units recorded.
I know this is speculation, but the timing and the numbers involved seems
logical.
Denis
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Old 12 Nov 2007, 07:47 (Ref:2065425)   #69
allenbrown
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevewood
It seems that as the years go by I have less and less of F3-18-65!

Yes I do have the chassis plate. But also the chassis with correct AM number, suspension, body and ancillary parts and fittings from the car.
Steve

Welcome to 10 Tenths.

Given the ebay advert, you must understand the degree of cynicism that had developed around your car. Would you be willing to share some photographs with us so we can see what you have?

Regards

Allen
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Old 21 Dec 2007, 08:44 (Ref:2093224)   #70
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According to original logbook of car F3-13-65 recently seen, the first owner of this car was DIETER BENZ.
The car was driven by MANFRED MOHR in period.
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Old 26 Dec 2007, 22:13 (Ref:2095127)   #71
Denis Lupton
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BT15 moves

To keep the record straight, I sold F3-11-65 to Larry Purcell some time ago,
sadly Larry passed away whilst working cverseas,and the car is retained by his widow.
Happier news is, I have obtained F3-19-65, the '65-'66 Sverrir Thoroddsson
car,which is being restored to it's original '65 F3 configuration, hopefully
ready to race early 2008.
Cheers
Denis
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Old 13 Jan 2008, 08:06 (Ref:2105121)   #72
edholly
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F3-25 65

After 12 meetings as a twincam, I am putting F3-25-65 back to its original form with an MAE screamer,

The rocker cover and inlet manifolds are both beautiful alloy castings, and have an embossed name in them. It is.... something then... M C.... maybe CMC. the MC are inside a circle with a border that make me think it represents a C.

Does anyone know what these letters stand for? Am really looking forward to driving her as an F3 car again, 9,200 rpm and all that.
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Old 13 Jan 2008, 12:47 (Ref:2105243)   #73
phdm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Townsend

F3.9.65 Jürg Dubler [F1R 18.9] 1966: Manfred Mohr [MN 19.1.67 p.2] probably Karl Starke 1969 entered by Midland Racing

Manfred Mohr [entered by Sq Arena is probably Dubler’s car]

Chris
Chris,

I was recently reading again Jürg DUBLER's memoirs (Les Années Fabuleuses de la Formule 3 1964-1970, published by Les Editions du Palmier).

According to what he writes, he bought a new car from Brabham for the 1965 season.

He sold the car after the Albi race:

Quote:
Jo Siffert me téléphone pour me demander dans quel état est la voiture; je lui dis tout ce que j'en sais et il me l'achète pour 19.000 Francs. Bien sûr, il sait déjà à qui il va la revendre : l'Argentin Andréa Vianini.
Which means: "Jo Siffert calls me to ask me in what condition the car is; I tell hm all I know about itet he buys it for 19,000 (Swiss) Francs. Of cours he alreday knows to whom he is going to sell it: the Argentinian Andrea Nianini."

Dubler then buys a new Brabham for the 1966 season.
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Old 13 Jan 2008, 16:52 (Ref:2105347)   #74
phdm
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F3-13-65

Quote:
Originally Posted by phdm
According to original logbook of car F3-13-65 recently seen, the first owner of this car was DIETER BENZ.
The car was driven by MANFRED MOHR in period.

I looked through the logbook again and nothing indicates therein that Mohr drove this car, contrary to the claims of the owner.
All races which the car took part in are indicated but none of them in the name of Manfred Mohr.

Registered owners are:

- Dieter Bentz - registered on 29 November 1965 (who owned the car before ?)

- Karl Starke - registered on 24 May 1968

- Rainer Kaese - registered on 16 June 1970

- Karl Meissner - registered on 14 September 1970

At some point in time, the car was transformed by Meissner into a seater and raced with Lola T212 bodywork and BDH engine.
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Old 13 Jan 2008, 19:16 (Ref:2105461)   #75
Chris Townsend
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phdm
"Jo Siffert calls me to ask me in what condition the car is; I tell hm all I know about itet he buys it for 19,000 (Swiss) Francs. Of cours he alreday knows to whom he is going to sell it: the Argentinian Andrea Nianini."
Andrea Nianini probably Andrea Vianini who uses BT15 in the Temporada of Jan-Feb 66. MN 19.1.67 p.2 has piece on Mohr in which he says he bought the ex Dubler BT15 for 1966 when it became clear his promised works de Sanctis wasn't going to materialise. Could well be that the car came back from Argentina, possibly with the two Argentines of Escuderio Automundo [Piaretti and Cupeiro] who drove 1966 model BT15s in Italy most of the season.

I have another note to MN 23.1.69 alongside F3.13.65 which was basis of my 1965 ascription of the car to Mohr. I'll double check this soon as I can.

What are the dates of races indicated before the 29 November 1965? We can work out the driver by process of elimination.

Chris
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