BTCC of yesteryear

[S griffin]

Yes I remember Heward, the first season in 96 he was quite a bit off the pace and indeed it took until Round 21 and 22 for the car to finally race. The car was even more ancient come 97, he actually DNQed a few times, which very rarely happened in those, particularly because a car was deemed to slow

Don’t know anything about the tyres, but nothing would surprise me. Considering he could only run a 93 Cavalier suggests his budget was shoestring at best

[Sodemo]

Wasnt it the case in the mid-late 90s that the Independant cup runners had a different tyre spec to that of the factory cars? When I say different I mean; "slower".

[auroan]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Wasnt it the case in the mid-late 90s that the Independant cup runners had a different tyre spec to that of the factory cars? When I say different I mean; "slower".

Yes. Wasn't until the year Matt Neal first won at Donny when they got the same tire as the manufacturer teams

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Wasnt it the case in the mid-late 90s that the Independant cup runners had a different tyre spec to that of the factory cars? When I say different I mean; "slower".

https://1990sbtcc.com/2017/08/03/interview-with-90s-btcc-indy-king-matt-neal/

[S griffin]

So which has been the best BTCC season from each decade since the 80s? It's hard to pick them out, some seasons were better than others and there were plenty that great in their own way, but it's hard to pick the best

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by KA

IIRC it was designed and built by Renault's rally team, and it showed!

Not sure how being built by the Renault Rally team would be seen as a bad thing? 5 Maxi Turbo, Maxi Megane, Clio S1600 - that's not a bad back catalogue?

[KA]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

Not sure how being built by the Renault Rally team would be seen as a bad thing? 5 Maxi Turbo, Maxi Megane, Clio S1600 - that's not a bad back catalogue?

I assume it was a case of too much 'rally' thought going into the design, and not enough 'circuit'- a case in point, according to Tim Harvey, being the presence of a conventional handbrake, because Jean Ragnotti felt it was neccessary for handbrake turns....

I also can't help wondering if it suffered from being a side project for a team whose main focus was on rally projects?

[CarfanLUFC]

Speaking of Harvey he always says the best cars he ever drove were the Vic Lee BMW.

Got me wondering, Prodrive were running 'works' BMW's at the time, was Lee also getting full backing?

The Prodrive cars won 4 races in 91 (but obviously Hoy took the title in a Lee car) but were easily beaten by Lee's cars in 1992. Sudgen and Menu only managed a podium each in the Prodrive cars

Or were all entries fully BMW backed? They are all down as Manufacturer entries so I guess they were....

[crmalcolm]

There's some info on the '92 BMWs here - https://tentenths.com/forum/showthre...=128944&page=2

Also remember, the 1991 VL cars were M3s, the 1992 cars were 318s...

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by S griffin

It always was the RAC who ran the series in those days, they stuck around quite a long time and helped the series get moving

Lol, it was the RACMSA, shortened to RAC and now called the MSA after RAC floated off. Nothing has changed there.

Spouting silly historical non facts really is unhelpful, and doesn’t build a great reputation for a poster...

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

There's some info on the '92 BMWs here - https://tentenths.com/forum/showthre...=128944&page=2

Also remember, the 1991 VL cars were M3s, the 1992 cars were 318s...

Same tech, different badge.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Same tech, different badge.

I thought the M3 was an E30, and the 318 was an E36? Hence Neal switching later in 1992.

[S griffin]

I think there always was some different interpretations of what the BMW models were. Neal didn't do much with the M3 and ended up in the 318 after he wrecked the M3 at Donnington

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

I thought the M3 was an E30, and the 318 was an E36? Hence Neal switching later in 1992.

Sorry, what I meant was that how the cars were badged for marketing and what they actually were was basically unrelated.

The M3s started as 2.3s, then 2.5s, then 3.0s, then 3.2s etc. And when the E36 came out there was no M3 for a year or two, the 325i was the quickest one.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Sorry, what I meant was that how the cars were badged for marketing and what they actually were was basically unrelated.

The M3s started as 2.3s, then 2.5s, then 3.0s, then 3.2s etc. And when the E36 came out there was no M3 for a year or two, the 325i was the quickest one.

Cheers - I just recall there being talk of differences between the 'M3' and '318' in terms of the race builds, and some of the differences were outside of factory changes.

[CarfanLUFC]

Ah good stuff. I also didn't realise that Neal had switched from the ex Prodrive coupe to a 4 door self built BMW in 1993. I did note he changed car number during the that season however...

Shame things never worked out with Dowson for Neal and Leslie in 94, the Mazda was a decent mid-field car early on. Leslie posting a couple of 8th place finishes. Then of course Neal had his big accident and a few rounds later the entire programme ended.

Was it the 94 Shoot out where Neal raced the bright green 323? I remember coming over to England and going to that race but can't remember if that was 94 or 95, my memory is hazy from those times.

I certainly remember attending the race, staying in the UK for 4 weeks, flying home and still getting back in time to watch the 'delayed' highlights on SuperSports back in Zimbabwe. It's just the actual years are lost on me.

[S griffin]

Yep, good look back. I wonder why Neal made the switch of cars midway through 93? I guess the change of number was to bring more luck. 77 would be luckier than 13

Mazda really didn’t look good in 94, the team did their best and Leslie did get a couple of good results out of it, but the car was nowhere. Neal didn’t look comfortable in that car, although that accident wasn’t his fault

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Yep, good look back. I wonder why Neal made the switch of cars midway through 93? I guess the change of number was to bring more luck. 77 would be luckier than 13

There was rule change coming in 1994 that would require cars to have at least 4 doors, albeit privateer teams would still be allowed to run existing 2-door cars for a period. Switching to the 4-door mid-season was a way of getting ahead of the game.

Number change was for exactly that reason. 13 was considered unlucky, he couldn't use 7 as 1-10 were reserved based on prior year championship finishing order, so used 77 instead.

[Craner Curves]

He is very superstitious and tried to beat them by doing away with them all and running number 13. He soon switched back after a run of bad luck.

[porsche962fan]

those Mazdas ended up as backmarker in the 1997 NATCC https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mi21Yeic3KQ

[S griffin]

I rewatched my 93 BTCC Season Review video. What a season, great mix of cars and performances could swing race by race. Very competitive season, with plenty of good racing. My favourite race that season would probably be the British GP support race.

One thing that isn’t picked up on is Winkelhock’s recovery in Rd 13 at Brands. After his early incident with Leslie, he worked his way back up to sixth and had the first five in sight, before he locked up, ruined his tyres and went off.

And Radisich really was the form man come the end of the season. A case of what might have been

[Nononsensecapeesh]

Originally Posted by S griffin

I rewatched my 93 BTCC Season Review video. What a season, great mix of cars and performances could swing race by race. Very competitive season, with plenty of good racing. My favourite race that season would probably be the British GP support race.

One thing that isn’t picked up on is Winkelhock’s recovery in Rd 13 at Brands. After his early incident with Leslie, he worked his way back up to sixth and had the first five in sight, before he locked up, ruined his tyres and went off.

And Radisich really was the form man come the end of the season. A case of what might have been

94 might have been his year if it weren't for the Alfas.

[Craner Curves]

Originally Posted by Nononsensecapeesh

94 might have been his year if it weren't for the Alfas.

This comment is seen a lot, but who was the runner up? Not him.

[Nononsensecapeesh]

Originally Posted by Craner Curves

This comment is seen a lot, but who was the runner up? Not him.

There's a reason why I said "might", he was one of the faves going into 94, Menu could have equalled Rouse's record with better luck.

[BTCC frog]

So I have been watching the season review DVDs, and am currently halfway through 1998. After 1997, which was not a great year, 1998 has so far been a brilliant season, with wins for Rydell's Volvo, Menu and Plato's Renaults, Leslie's Nissan, Cleland's Vauxhall and even Hoy's Ford (and I'm sure a Honda win isn't far away too). It is also great to see Matt Neal and Team Dynamics finally starting to mix with the works teams.

But one thing that intrigued me was the mandatory pitstops that were introduced that year, in that I didn't particularly like them at first, but they are growing on me. I'm not sure why this is, as I like the pitstops in Formula 1, but I think maybe it is because there are no timing screens and the videos only show highlights, so it is very difficult to know what order the drivers are actually in, unlike in current F1. However, I would not want this reintroduced now, because I like the way the BTCC is just three short sprint races, which is very different to F1. But obviously this doesn't matter for a race twenty years ago, and tradition isn't really a thing in the BTCC.

The reason I have posted this is because I would be interested to know what BTCC fans thought about the mandatory pitstops at the time, without the knowledge that they will be scrapped in a few years time, and because the issue of only showing highlights would not have been applicable when watching live.