[ELMS] ELMS Discussion

[gert]

TF Sport set to join LMP2?

https://www.endurance-info.com/fr/el...c-salih-yoluc/

[Tique]

It will be a nice surprise if TF sport do so.

[gert]

Ultimate will be back for 2021 with an Oreca 07 supported by Tech 1 (just like Panis)
Drivers will be their familiar trio of Lahaye-Lahaye-Heriau

https://www.endurance-info.com/fr/ultimate/

[Mike E]

DTM refugee Jonathan Aberdein joins #22 United crew.
http://www.dailysportscar.com/2021/0...mp2-squad.html

I think that's a good enough excuse to take another look (and listen!) at his dad's old SA Modified Saloon Audi. What a beast...
https://youtu.be/tyyGDbpYUuU

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by Mike E

DTM refugee Jonathan Aberdein joins #22 United crew.
http://www.dailysportscar.com/2021/0...mp2-squad.html

I think that's a good enough excuse to take another look (and listen!) at his dad's old SA Modified Saloon Audi. What a beast...
https://youtu.be/tyyGDbpYUuU

I don't like the coffee table on the rear, for the rest

[Mike E]

A non-Ferrari, non-Porsche entry in GTE.

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2021/0...-for-2021.html

[LC2guy]

43 Car Entry for the season. Great entry size, but a bit disappointed that Only 5 cars are not Oreca P2. Ligier P3 or Ferrari GTE. Variety has gone unfortunately, it needs a re-set in my opinion.


http://www.dailysportscar.com/2021/0...ns-series.html

[GT6]

Well an Aston for me to cheer, if we are allowed to actually attend any races.

[JoeW04]

The lack of variety is a shame and it seems the ACO isn’t very pro active addressing the issue, especially in the prototype classes, P3 is a concern considering we are still in the early days of this rule set, does anyone know why Ligier seems to be the car of choice when a Duqueine won the championship last year?

No criticism on a full grid by the way just more variety would of been good

[Mike E]

Robert Kubica, Louis Deletraz and Yifei Ye at Team WRT.

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2021/0...lms-squad.html

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by JoeW04

The lack of variety is a shame and it seems the ACO isn’t very pro active addressing the issue, especially in the prototype classes, P3 is a concern considering we are still in the early days of this rule set, does anyone know why Ligier seems to be the car of choice when a Duqueine won the championship last year?

No criticism on a full grid by the way just more variety would of been good

I agree about variety but what can you do about it?

[Coach Ep]

Remove the limit on number of constructors but leave the cost capped price for a chassis. Smart design and development will come up to the surface and competitors will recognize it and will try to take advantage of it.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

Remove the limit on number of constructors but leave the cost capped price for a chassis. Smart design and development will come up to the surface and competitors will recognize it and will try to take advantage of it.

Agree with this. Also remove single engine manufacturer, but cost cap the engine.

[helgi]

They won't find any new fans for endurance racing because it's too boring to watch a 3 hour race for most of the public. They already have lost some old fans who used to cheer the tech variety which was the key point of interest for those who are not interested in (or not being a relative to) drivers. And nobody cares about the situation. Success.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by helgi

They won't find any new fans for endurance racing because it's too boring to watch a 3 hour race for most of the public. They already have lost some old fans who used to cheer the tech variety which was the key point of interest for those who are not interested in (or not being a relative to) drivers. And nobody cares about the situation. Success.

That may be the case for the casual viewer, yes. For me, I hugely enjoyed watching all of the ELMS coverage last year, I also watched all of the MLMC races and all of the AsLMS. It's good immersive racing and that's why I watch racing. Tech variety is all well and good but it isn't the be-all and end-all for everyone. Times change....

[Anyopenroad]

Originally Posted by LC2guy

43 Car Entry for the season. Great entry size, but a bit disappointed that Only 5 cars are not Oreca P2. Ligier P3 or Ferrari GTE. Variety has gone unfortunately, it needs a re-set in my opinion.

Variety is everything for me. I have zero interest in this entry list and therefore the series this year.

I thus find myself in disagreement with Aysedasi. That may be the first time this has happened, which at least reassures me that I am able to form an independent opinion .

[Akrapovic]

I do think both tech variety and good racing is achievable though. We had more variety and just as good racing under the previous set of regulations in LMP2 as well.

[Aysedasi]

I can understand where those interested in tech and tech variety are coming from. Different constructors and different engines would undoubtedly interest me, but then I'd have to wade through 10,000 posts decrying BOP.... I'm joking (of course). But the bottom line is that the racing needs to be good. I've watched many forms of racing over the years when it was dominated by single constructors, but there was great racing. The best race I've watched for years was on my one recent visit to a BTCC meeting - Thruxton back in 2019 (?). No, not the BTCC, but the mini race on the same programme. It was sensational.

I don't think it's so much of a difference of opinion (which in itself is absolutely fine) but just a different viewpoint.... (I also have to accept that there has been another element to my interest over the past season).

[blankfile]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

Remove the limit on number of constructors but leave the cost capped price for a chassis. Smart design and development will come up to the surface and competitors will recognize it and will try to take advantage of it.

Take the lmp2 regs and slightly increase cost cap, free up the engine and chassis. BOP the engine/powertrain to the gibson including hybrid systems balanced out with extra weight and call it lmp1. Thats what i'd do.
That way you'd still have the slightly faster prototypes for teams that want to spend just a little more without resorting to a full on manufacturer/hypercar.
You'd also return to the old battle of prototype vs gt1 ish with these classes.

[Anyopenroad]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

I can understand where those interested in tech and tech variety are coming from. Different constructors and different engines would undoubtedly interest me, but then I'd have to wade through 10,000 posts decrying BOP....

I’m not even bothered about the tech tbh. Or even the racing! My perspective is primarily that of a spectator taking photos. I regularly have no idea who wins the races I attend until I get home and read about it. It’s all about the sensorial experience - what the cars look and sound like.

That’s very much not a typical motor racing fan view - yours is much more so. ELMS does offer close racing, even if it is artificial .

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Anyopenroad

I’m not even bothered about the tech tbh. Or even the racing! My perspective is primarily that of a spectator taking photos. I regularly have no idea who wins the races I attend until I get home and read about it. It’s all about the sensorial experience - what the cars look and sound like.

That’s very much not a typical motor racing fan view - yours is much more so. ELMS does offer close racing, even if it is artificial .

Yeah, I do get that, as an amateur racing photographer myself.

The thing is, artificial or not, great close racing is still great close racing. Just look at some of the battles we've had in GTEPro in the last few years. For all the whining about the impurity of BOP, it's actually give us a race to watch instead of a Mercedes-style procession...

[S griffin]

The thing is sportscar racing has always given us great variety. And while I’m not always a fan of BoP, it does seem to work in ELMS, so we do get great battles in all classes and it balances out, so the cream rises to the top come the end. ELMS is not my favourite series, certainly it’s not as good as WEC or IMSA, but it has enough going for it to make it worth watching

[Mike E]

I'm somewhere in between on this. Of course I want good racing but I also have no time for spec series. LMP2 is almost at that point in reality of course because of the ACO's deeply flawed 4 constructors/frozen homologation approach.

On the face of it, it is quite a pure formula because there is a technical rule book and no BoP. But without the ability to develop, of course everyone gravitates to the best chassis. United Autosports even sacrificed their UK distribution deal with Ligier in order to have a shot at winning. You would have to say that worked out for them.

When I took my brother-in-law to LM for the first time about 7 years ago one of his first observations was how different all the cars sounded. He is not a racing fan but he was pleasantly surprised.

Even GTE is getting very samey, despite BoP. And if it wasn't for BoP everyone in Am would be running a Ferrari. The sooner it is replaced by GT3 the better.

As for LMP2 and LMP3, they are 'successful' in the sense that the grids are full. But they have failed to protect the anointed constructors, except Oreca in P2 and Ligier in P3. The idea of being able to build cars in large numbers because of limited competition might have seemed like a good idea at the time but it hasn't worked out that way. I hope they can think of a way of improving it. Which probably means BoP...

[S griffin]

ELMS has kind of stagnated recently. It does seem there isn’t the interest there once was. It seems it can’t compete with the WEC. As a result it doesn’t seem that important for the teams that have competed in the past. BoP is now a necessity in the series

Shame really, but it hasn’t really progressed the last few years. Now teams like UA see more sense in competing in the WEC and a lot of teams left in ELMS are there because they have nowhere else to go. WEC has it’s faults, but it’s still got plenty of different teams and constructors/manufacturers competing and that’s how sportscar racing should be

With the new Le Mans rules coming in, you wonder how long ELMS can go on for. Unless there is a big demand for a return to LMPs at Le Mans, how can this series stay sustainable and relevant? GTs are the only classes likely to stay relevant and let’s face it, we have enough GT series as it is, so it would hardly be an improvement if was just that class competing. So that would be the end of that idea


It’s still a good series in it’s own right, but it’s starting to lose it’s relevance

[Simmi]

LMDH top class is an intriguing possibility for ELMS. Maybe 2024 onwards?

Especially if you get some ELMS teams stepping up or adding a LMDH to their programmes. A bit like you get P2 teams running P3 cars now.