Weber DCOE- When first used?

[Colin McKay]

48's, not 45's as in the thread title - duh!

Anyone know when these were introduced? I have been told that they were certainly around in 1962 but can't find any hard evidence.

[Peter Mallett]

The 45 is the weapon of choice for the FIA MGB which suggests the 48 was around at the same time 1963(?).

[MGDavid]

I read that the Cobra prototype had DCOEs in 1962 but I'm not sure which model they were.

[grantp]

https://www.tecno2.it/cms/downloads/...ioni-1960-1973

This scanned document (no searchable text included but I might be able to create something from if some software I have does not object to Italian) has reference to a 48DCO3 being available for a Maserati 250F.

See page 24.

I may have missed earlier references as I scanned.

So there may be more to be discovered here to provide dating guidance.

Other than in the file name I have not spotted any dates for availability. The Document appears to be a combination of several product lists of different years between 1960 and 1973.

Wikipedia does not have much either.

There may be other sources ...

[GORDON STREETER]

I used 48s in my Hot Rod in the late 60s but the ones I used in my Anglia in later years were 50s

[Mike Harte]

I used 45s in the mid 60s on the Anglia (and 40s were available at that time). And I read somewhere that Ferrari were experimenting with side-draught Webers in the early 60s, although size/type was not mentioned.

[Mike Bell]

Thread title changed.

I’d say mid 60s, without doing any research to back that up......

I would like to think that someone like webcon or other Weber specialist dealer could give an accurate answer?

[Colin McKay]

Thanks Mike

[MGDavid]

The DCO was different from the DCOE. DCOs were around at least as early as 1958. Happen to know this as I did some research on 32DCOs for Delta just a few months ago.

[grantp]

From the PDF file linked earlier the 48, in any variant, only appears once, as mentioned, in the "Discontinued" list from 1960.

The 1968 and 1973 documents don't mention a 48 anything at all.


Meanwhile ...


While looking at those documents ... what was a Ford Anglia Torino?


..... and a quick Google later .....

https://www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk...-anglia-torino

Well I never.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by grantp

From the PDF file linked earlier the 48, in any variant, only appears once, as mentioned, in the "Discontinued" list from 1960.

The 1968 and 1973 documents don't mention a 48 anything at all.


Meanwhile ...


While looking at those documents ... what was a Ford Anglia Torino?


..... and a quick Google later .....

https://www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk...-anglia-torino

Well I never.

Well, I'd never heard of one of those!
(It looks like the result of a drink fuelled passionate affair between a 100E & a HA Viva!)

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

Well, I'd never heard of one of those!
(It looks like the result of a drink fuelled passionate affair between a 100E & a HA Viva!)

Nor have I, but it has got a105e windscreen and doors

[Tel 911S]

I have an original Weber manual which lists settings for various models .
Can,t see 48s , but 45 DCOE /9 are listed for several cars in 1962 .

[p261brm]

Originally Posted by MGDavid

The DCO was different from the DCOE. DCOs were around at least as early as 1958. Happen to know this as I did some research on 32DCOs for Delta just a few months ago.

DCO's were the sand cast body hand built carburettor, and were in a lotto winners price bracket for a genuine matching numbers set. Norman Seeny certainly produced very respectable reproductions and were marked as such, The matched set on John Quick's (JQ recently RIP) . WOO 11 disappeared when the car was in the USA, and certainly not with the car on it's return to Europe in 2001 That particular set came from Peter Sargent complete with manifold after Dr Klat fitted injection to the two Peter's lightweight E.

[Mike Bell]

I've opened the thread up to a general discussion reading all types of DCOE. As mentioned by p261brm and mgdavid, the first late 50s sidedraft DCO3 carbs were sandcast, and very exclusive. The DCOE pressure die cast version was introduced a bit later, but when they were first used on specifc cars is causing difficulties with HTP papers. It only affects single seaters and two seater racing cars that come into period E, as detailed below. This is from an MSA inspector and is self explanatory, hopefully. If anyone can unearth any info to help, I'm sure it would be appreciated!


"Quite recently, when submitting HTP applications for two seat and single seater racing cars of a type which competed in the late 1950s or in 1960 with DCOE carburettors fitted, the FIA Historic Compliance Committee have been requesting evidence of identical DCOE type fitment from period.
Note; period E – to end of 1960 for single seater and two-seater racing cars.

As we all know, HTPs are supposed to be issued to actual cars or cars of an identical specification which competed in an International event in period.
Technically the Compliance Committee are correct to ask, then it is the responsibility of the HTP applicant to provide the required evidence.

As far as I have recently established, 40 DCOE type carburettors were first produced and available from either very late 1959 or early 1960.
45 DCOE carburettors followed some months later in mid-1960.

It would appear very few makes and/or types of cars did actually compete in an International event between mid - to the end of 1960 with DCOE carburettors.

However, and as an example, I have come across some evidence in this book “The Story of Lotus” by Ian Smith.
In the chapter covering the Lotus 18 F2 cars during the year 1960 it is quoted; “one of which had the new pressure die-cast (and cheaper) Weber 45DCOE carburettors”.
Whilst this is not 100% conclusive evidence, it is just the sort of thing my HTP colleagues and I are looking for.
See a copy of the front page from the book and the page (including the page number) with the information copies attached.


My request is; We need similar evidence or anything you have for other makes and models of cars from this period. Please note; GT and Touring cars are not a problem. These production type cars are homologated or have a catalogued specification.
Carburation is often visible in action photographs for most single seater race cars.
It is these, but predominantly for two-seater racing cars we are seeking your help and advice.

For your information, very recently the fitment of 40DCOEs on a Lotus Eleven has been questioned.
I cannot find evidence of such a period fitment.
And quite obviously, there is virtually no original 40DCO3 carburettors available and I understand no one makes reproductions.

Basic truth now is; if an HTP applicant’s period E car has DCOE carburettors, we need proof of an identical car in an International event in period.

What we are wanting is of period evidence of DCOE carburettors of whatever make and model during this short period for single and two-seater racing cars in period E- This in the very short period from between the introduction of DCOE carburettors in early 1960, to the end of period E on 31st December that same year.

Any evidence would be greatly appreciated and I am very happy to keep whatever information anyone has on file and for anyone to share.

Thank you for those who have helped so far and thank you to anyone else who may be able to help."