Honda Withdrawl from F1 - Page 2

2 litre Touring Car Star · 2 Oct 2020, 10:38 (Ref:4007927)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

Go the BTCC route get a standard engine then keep knocking back the other works engines to make sure it stays competitive.

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BTCC route??? F1is different type of motor racing.

Standard engines are for lower level racing.

ascarracinguk · 2 Oct 2020, 10:40 (Ref:4007929)

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2 litre Touring Car Star

BTCC route??? F1is different type of motor racing.

Standard engines are for lower level racing.

Really? I mean the Ford DFV served F1 well for a few decades, the Gibson engine does well for LMP2 etc etc

Moneyseeker · 2 Oct 2020, 10:46 (Ref:4007932)

Quote:

Originally Posted by S griffin

While it's a shame to lose Honda, this is why F1 or any motorsport for that matter, should be so reliant on manufacturers. They come and go as they please. Their racing department may enjoy the competition, but at the end of the day the decision to continue or not comes from those at the top, the actual motor manufacturer. If only we could have a modern equivalent of the good old Ford Cosworth DFV

This is why TOCA have done such a good job with the BTCC, it still has the 'glamour' of some 'works' entries, but they are not allowed to dominate a well built, run and driven TOCA engined car car win races or as may be the case this year, the championship. Yes, we know that performance balancing and other elements help this. Now there will be a TOCA Hybrid power unit to keep the BTCC topical.

For years, F1 has been standing on an upside down pyramid. At the end of the BE/CVC era probably half the teams could afford to stay in business and half the circuits couldn't afford to hold the races - at least FOM is now recognising this and making changes.

More worrying for FOM and their marketing people is that Honda no longer see the value in F1 for them, which is not good news for FOM's global marketing platform.

Moneyseeker · 2 Oct 2020, 10:48 (Ref:4007935)

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2 litre Touring Car Star

BTCC route??? F1is different type of motor racing.

Standard engines are for lower level racing.

F1is over relaint on the engine performance factor - look at Ferrari now they have been pegged back - nowhere on pure performance .

2 litre Touring Car Star · 2 Oct 2020, 10:48 (Ref:4007936)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ascarracinguk

Really?

Yep.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ascarracinguk

I mean the Ford DFV served F1 well for a few decades, the Gibson engine does well for LMP2 etc etc

That's fine when it occurs like that "organically". When it's forced or pre-empted like in the btcc, it's not particularly satisfying.

steve nielsen · 2 Oct 2020, 10:53 (Ref:4007938)

With Stefano Domenicali beeing the new F1 CEO: how about Red Bull-Lamborghini ?

**BertMk2** · 2 Oct 2020, 10:57 (Ref:4007939)

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2 litre Touring Car Star

That's fine when it occurs like that "organically". When it's forced or pre-empted like in the btcc, it's not particularly satisfying.

But it's not forced? If you want to develop your own engine you can, if you can't or don't want to then fine - use the off the shelf item. I don't see why that's such a bad thing? It makes sense - the championship is then not relying on manfacturers being involved. How committed are Renault and Mercedes? If they bail out in the next few years then where are the engines coming from? It'll be everyone with a Ferrari unit (assuming they could build enough). An independent engine supply just makes sense.

steve nielsen · 2 Oct 2020, 11:02 (Ref:4007940)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BertMk2

But it's not forced? If you want to develop your own engine you can, if you can't or don't want to then fine - use the off the shelf item. I don't see why that's such a bad thing? It makes sense - the championship is then not relying on manfacturers being involved. How committed are Renault and Mercedes? If they bail out in the next few years then where are the engines coming from? It'll be everyone with a Ferrari unit (assuming they could build enough). An independent engine supply just makes sense.

Coworth had a V6 turbo hybrid engine ready for 2014, but nobody wanted it.

https://www.racecar-engineering.com/...f1-power-unit/

Moneyseeker · 2 Oct 2020, 11:10 (Ref:4007943)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BertMk2

But it's not forced? If you want to develop your own engine you can, if you can't or don't want to then fine - use the off the shelf item. I don't see why that's such a bad thing? It makes sense - the championship is then not relying on manfacturers being involved. How committed are Renault and Mercedes? If they bail out in the next few years then where are the engines coming from? It'll be everyone with a Ferrari unit (assuming they could build enough). An independent engine supply just makes sense.

Completely agree - FOM should commision it and then they can sell the badging rights - so it becomes say the Aramaco engine and then sell the engines to the teams and make sure they remain competitive. This would also reduce the development of the works engines if they know they wil be kept at some sort of parity with FOM's engine.

I know I keep saying this, but FOM just owns a pile of paperwork - no circuits, no teams in other words nothing that guarantees them to turn that paperwork into money.

Look at what Carey has said in the past, he was very open that they believe d there was a massive sponsor resource out there, it just needed some more 'know how' and people to make the calls - having invested in the people and the know how they found that they queue for F1 sponsors wasn't as long or willing as they imagined, and that was pre-Covid!

Ditto the circuits with coutries and promoters queuing up to outbid each other to have F1 there - apart from Saudia - where will this come from?

Liberty investors proably thought that all of the above after suffcient investment would deliver a much bigger return that BE/CVC achieved. I doubt they will get anywhere even close to it - can you imagine the FOM P/L accounts from this season!

Moneyseeker · 2 Oct 2020, 11:11 (Ref:4007944)

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve nielsen

Coworth had a V6 turbo hybrid engine ready for 2014, but nobody wanted it.

https://www.racecar-engineering.com/...f1-power-unit/

I bet their phone has rung already....

gert · 2 Oct 2020, 12:11 (Ref:4007953)

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve nielsen

With Stefano Domenicali beeing the new F1 CEO:
how about Red Bull-Lamborghini ?

One has nothing to do with the other.

I doubt VAG group has an engine ready or are willing to commit to making one for 2022.
It has been rumoured a few times the last few years (once it was clled a Porsche, next time an Audi, they can also call it Lamborghini or Bentley or whatever if they want) but nothing came of it. I highly doubt they will be interested now.

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Renault must be laughing now.

Either Red Bull and Torros Rosso find another manufacturer and Renault won't really care as they seem to want to concebtrate on their own team for now.
Either Red Bull or Torro Rosso or both come(s) begging for an engine

Both options are fine for Renault I think.

Biscuits In A Red Bull · 2 Oct 2020, 12:25 (Ref:4007957)

With this announcement, does this therefore mean that Yuki Tsunoda isn't as certain to be in F1 for either 2021/22? If he can make the jump to AlphaTauri for 2021 I'd expect he would still do so, but from then on what of his Honda backing? This does have some implications for the Red Bull junior programme.

chillibowl · 2 Oct 2020, 12:38 (Ref:4007960)

I suppose i am a bit more worried about RB pulling out one or both teams.

With the Williams sale, the 200m entry for new teams, budget cap plus better access to prize money...maybe this is a time to sell out/buy an existing team?

Not so much worried about lack of engines. In fairness, 4 not fully electric engines was already superfluous and antiquated.

The FE path is an interesting one depending on how much it would cost to transfer over the rights.

Provided they dont go backwards with technology imo, this may be a good thing for F1.

This sport just keeps on giving. I love it!

gert · 2 Oct 2020, 12:39 (Ref:4007961)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull

With this announcement, does this therefore mean that Yuki Tsunoda isn't as certain to be in F1 for either 2021/22? If he can make the jump to AlphaTauri for 2021 I'd expect he would still do so, but from then on what of his Honda backing? This does have some implications for the Red Bull junior programme.

Good question.
He is both Red Bull and Honda junior, right? I guess Red Bull may still want thim if they think he is good enough for 1 of their teams.
But probably the Honda money and support will be gone, so if Red Bull don't rate him higher than what they have now or what they have down the pipe line they nmay decide to skip him
And wait for Vips or the next one in line?

**Born Racer** · 2 Oct 2020, 13:14 (Ref:4007970)

Red Bull always seemed to be strangely scathingly critical of Renault. Did they warrant such public criticism?