Sir Lewis Hamilton is the GOAT

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

So Hamilton is not in the best car? Also Schumacher was never beaten to a Championship by his team mate. However what about Clark, Stewart, Fangio, Prost, Senna, Peterson, the list is huge and of the time. Maybe Hamilton is the Best now - although Vestapen or Alonso are in for a shot

Looking at your list, Hammy is not only the best of now but equal best of the last 30 years, with Schuey. None come close. Alonso is handy but has had what could be called a stuttering career. Verstappen I don't see even in the same book yet alone on the same page. His first 4 years were a succession of crashes, incidents, collisions and reprimands. Now he has to drive according to the rules he's less successful.

[RWill2073]

How about we call him the LOAT? Luckiest of all time. ��

He's the best of this era no doubt.

Can't compare win totals and all with other generations. How many wins would Schumacher have if they ran 20+ races per year in his heyday?

[fieldodreams79]

My first thought this morning to the GOAT moniker was that he's certainly one of the most accomplished, for sure. Then saw this later today:



Always fun to debate.

[Adam43]

Those stats are pretty even.

Schumacher did it in a few less starts. Ratio is 34.9% v 37.0%

Schumacher has an extra title, but also an extra year and a bit in F1 (and didn’t have a Rosberg).

Poles is a difference.

Fastest laps might be down to the rules. A lot of Schumacher’s was during refuelling where a FL could happen at more times with a fuel light car. Hamilton put in those same great laps mid race, but not near the end when light as the race was won. I guess?

Podiums pretty close. Hamilton ratio is 61.3% to Schumacher 62.6%.

Different circuits could be there are more changes recently. ???

Who’s the GOAT. That’s easy, it’s Morbidelli.

[RWill2073]

I'm actually surprised the race totals are so close. They are pretty even. Maybe instead of "schumacher didnt have a rosberg", it's more like "schumacher never lost to his rosbergs".

[coppice]

Clarke ? Sir Sterling ? Who are these people - anything to do with that Luis Hamilton?

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by GT6

Now that made me laugh, yes he is a great driver but not really the sort of person who will be remembered with great affection like sir sterling.

Unfortunately people see what they want to see these days....or what the media want you to see.

People seem to cast Hamilton as a jet setting, party going fashion guy whilst forgetting all the charity work he has done for UNICEF, kids charities, wildlife organisations etc, at the same time giving the likes of Stewart, hunt, Hill a free pass.

Could you imagine the twitter storm if Lewis was seen womanising, out getting drunk the night before the race.....transport those drivers into the modern era and can you imagine if the press got hold of some of those antics

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by steve_r

Hamilton is the greatest of his generation.

Schumacher was the greatest of his generation.

Senna was the greatest of his generation.

Clarke was the greatest of his generation.

Fangio was the greatest of his generation.

etc.

As for "GOAT" - I find these arguments tedious and frankly rather silly. How could anyone compare drivers from the 50's against drivers of today? F1 is completely and utterly different in all ways apart from the name.

This.

Can’t compare generations, so let’s just settle for best of his generation and the most successful of all time (well soon to be anyway)

[Knowlesy]

Originally Posted by RWill2073

I'm actually surprised the race totals are so close. They are pretty even. Maybe instead of "schumacher didnt have a rosberg", it's more like "schumacher never lost to his rosbergs".

No, but when he was about to he was waved past. Not that he ever had the calibre of teammate Hamilton has had. I think most agree on that.

Not saying Schumacher isn't a great. He and his team just had a different way of operating that maximised the result for them. It was less than enjoyable but totally logical and effective.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

No, but when he was about to he was waved past. Not that he ever had the calibre of teammate Hamilton has had. I think most agree on that.

Not saying Schumacher isn't a great. He and his team just had a different way of operating that maximised the result for them. It was less than enjoyable but totally logical and effective.

Nelson Piquet - Complete rubbish really, fell into 3 WDCs by complete luck.

Massa more than handy before Brawn didn't bother to withdraw a car with a known problem.

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by wnut

Nelson Piquet - Complete rubbish really, fell into 3 WDCs by complete luck.

Massa more than handy before Brawn didn't bother to withdraw a car with a known problem.

Piquet was well past it by time Schumacher joined. then he had Brundle, Verstappen, Lehto, Herbert, Barichello, a young Massa.

Hamilton has had Alonso, Button, Rosberg, Bottas, Heiki

we can go around in circles with this argument though, trying to compare is impossible. i think its true to say though that hamilton has had tougher teammates, in equal machinery, without number 1 status.

Same can be said for Fangio who was even given his teammates cars after he retired....something you couldnt do these days!.... it would be interesting to go back and see how many championships Fangio would have lost if that hadnt been allowed.

Lets just enjoy 2 greats of their era, appreciate the magnitude of Schumachers achievements and that Hamilton has managed to scale the impossible slope.

Astonishing achievments by both

[2 litre Touring Car Star]

Both Hamilton and Schumacher are stat accumulators. Piling on stats long after their point is made.

[chunterer]

I don't agree that Hamilton hasn't had no.1 status? Come on!!

He had it in '08/09 then McLaren decided they needed another topliner to fight RB and Ferrari and so Whitmarsh signed Button.

When he joined Merc I find it highly unlikely there wasn't some element of preference in the contract otherwise he wouldn't have taken the risk.

Nico was supposed to play 2nd fiddle but decided not to, hence the fireworks.

Since 2017 there has clearly been a no.1 and no.2. That has generally been the same in RB and also in Ferrari until they decided Vettel wasn't upto it anymore and pushed Leclerc forward.

That aside, there is no doubt in my mind that Hamilton is one of the top 6 drivers ever, maybe top 3 (I do not base that purely on statistics, cause that would be a bit obvious, no?) but he is probably the first driver, with the style of on-track calibre that I admire the most I.E. a real racer (and those talents don't come along very often) who I find quite objectionable in character. But hey, that's just me

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by chunterer

I don't agree that Hamilton hasn't had no.1 status? Come on!!

He had it in '08/09 then McLaren decided they needed another topliner to fight RB and Ferrari and so Whitmarsh signed Button.

When he joined Merc I find it highly unlikely there wasn't some element of preference in the contract otherwise he wouldn't have taken the risk.

Nico was supposed to play 2nd fiddle but decided not to, hence the fireworks.

Since 2017 there has clearly been a no.1 and no.2. That has generally been the same in RB and also in Ferrari until they decided Vettel wasn't upto it anymore and pushed Leclerc forward.

That aside, there is no doubt in my mind that Hamilton is one of the top 6 drivers ever, maybe top 3 (I do not base that purely on statistics, cause that would be a bit obvious, no?) but he is probably the first driver, with the style of on-track calibre that I admire the most I.E. a real racer (and those talents don't come along very often) who I find quite objectionable in character. But hey, that's just me

ENTIRELY different to have number 1 status written into your contract, receive new parts first by default as Schumacher did and Hamilton’s situation where talent got him number 1 status.

2007 - he beat an experienced teammate to become top dog
2008 -2009 top dog against heiki on talent alone
2010-2012 against button there was no number 1/ number 2
2013-present, Hamilton and his teammates have consistently been allowed to race one another, the only time team orders have been implemented is when his teammate was out of the championship hunt

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Nico was supposed to play 2nd fiddle but decided not to, hence the fireworks.

Are you sure? I don't recall ever hearing that before....