Targa Florio

[Edmonton]

Is there any way this event could be revived?

[JAG]

No.

Nearest thing is a WRC event.

[dretceterini]

Far to "dangerous" in thse times of political correctness. Same goes for the Mille Miglia

[jhansen]

I've heard the name Targa Florio and know it was a big deal at once. Need some background though. How was it structured and where did it take place? Thanks for any answers.

[Edmonton]

It seemed to me that if you put up some barriers etc and others things so people couldn't get on the track that you might be able to pull it off.

[The Badger]

It was run around the Italian island of Sicily and used public roads and through towns . I agree though , wouldnt it be great to see present day sportscars racing around Sicily .

Looking at the law's of motorsport in Italy I feel that it would be way to risky though . Remember the witchhunt in Italy after Ratzenberger's and Senna's death . Head , Newey and Williams were all facing possible manslaughter charges .

Its a nice idea though .....

[skycafe]

In a way the nearest thing is the Isle of Man motorcycle race. Run over typical roads, and the competitors started at timed intervals.

What Edmonton and I both watched last night was the SpeedTV showing of the film Speed Merchants, which covered the 1972 Sports Car season. I have the companion book but had never seen the film. Great stuff. Longest amount of footage I have seen of the Targa.

Great film of Daytona 6 Hours, Sebring, Nurburgring, Le Mans, Watkins Glen. Even though I taped it I guess I have to spring for a real copy or DVD. I also believe the book has been reissued. Either or both are worth every penny.

[Rob29]

Both the Targa Florio and the Mille Miglia are still run,but as historic rally type events for cars of the original era.I actually attended the 1987 Mille Miglia,a very enjoyable weekend.Unlikely that open road racing for modern cars would ever be sanctioned for obvious safety reasons.
Edmonton;90 miles of barriers would bankrupt any organizers,I think!
A street circuit in Palermo might be do-able ,though.

[cybersdorf]

Imagine an R8 on a Tour de Corse tarmac rally stage. Can you see what the problem is?

If you have ever been down there you will appreciate that this is the sort of "long and winding road" that would be impossible to modify to modern safety standards - you'd basically have to rebuild Northern Sicily. (Also, isn't the old circuit intersected by a motorway now?)

It was a fantastic event but let's face it, it was way too dangerous (not just "dangerous", it actually was dangerous). Part of the mystique of the Italian "Prova" licens plate has to do with the Targa - there was only one official practice/qualifying session, and so the teams stuck "Prova" plates on their racing machines, and the drivers went out for "reconnaissance laps" in traffic. there is awonderful article about such a run - a journalist hitched a ride with Rolf Stommelen took in 1966 or '67 - unfortunately this piece is in German only but it gives a good, and dramatic, account of a flying lap around Madonie at what basically was race pace (only a few sec slower thatn an actual race lap, on the closed circuit) while avoiding trucks and scooters. Drivers like Stommelen or Elford, the "iron men" with a history in rallying, came into their own on this track.

Also, they would bring along genuinely legal practice cars, Alfa had

The only temporary track that somehow compares with the Circuito Piccolo Madonie these days would be Bathurst - public roads closed for the event, but not a street race.

The Euro 3000 series holds (or at least held) a street race in Cagliari. Not the most inspiring circuit, though. And Enna-Pergusa has a the FIA GT, and a 24 Hour race.

Today, the only appropriate machinery for such a race would be GT3 cars, or in fact World Rally cars. (Wouldn't be a bad mix.)

http://www.targaflorio.info
http://www.vpracing.com/The_Races/Ta...ga_florio.html
http://www.racingcircuits.net/Italy/TargaFlorio.html

[Truckosaurus]

If anyone wants more information on the Targa Florio, can I recommend Brooklands Books' compilation of contemporary magazine articles, cunningly titled 'Targo Florio'.

[cybersdorf]

Some nice images at http://www.ninovaccarella.com

[cybersdorf]

http://www.cervia.com/ferrariclubforli/targa_florio.htm

[pirenzo]

wasn't Mille Miglia actaully stopped because it was too dangerous in the 50s? If it was deemed too dangerous even then, it must have been incredibly dangerous!
The Targa Florio was run on a number of different circuits, the lngest of which i think was 37 miles.

[pirenzo]

just look at this photo!
(from one of the links above)
http://www.cervia.com/ferrariclubforli/ta725.htm

[Edmonton]

The isle of Mann TT is still around and that seems more dangerous to me.

[gi_gav]

Quite right pirenzo, it ended after the fatal crash of Alfonso de Portago in 1957, so even too dangerous by '50s standards.

Bear in mind though that this was at the height of the arguments between the Pope/the Catholic establishment and Enzo Ferrari, which no doubt played into the decision to end the Mille Miglia.

[pirenzo]

well yeah, Enzo was dealing with a lot of dead young men at that time...
Portago, Luigi Musso, Euginio Castellotti, Peter Collins were all killed driving Ferrari's in 1957 i think.
Remembering that Enzo Ferrari program a while back, his reaction to Ferrari's chief mechanic telling him over the phone of Castellotti's death in a trivial testing session at Monza was pretty remorseless too, so no wonder he got trouble from the Pope

[pirenzo]

Originally posted by Edmonton
The isle of Mann TT is still around and that seems more dangerous to me.

Yeah, but it's a properly organised event, and it's on country roads too. The bits in towns aren't that fast, and where the track does run through small hamlets there is run-off.
The Targa Florio winds through mountains and there are numerous flat out sections through towns and villages.
Targa is a lot more dangerous.

[dretceterini]

I think the Mille Miglia was more intersting than the Targa, but wouldn't it be wonderful to have both of them back?

[cybersdorf]

Originally posted by pirenzo
Yeah, but it's a properly organised event

...so when you spill your brains all over the high street, they'll have the mess cleaned up in noi time.
Proper organisation won't move brick walls, and make lampposts any softer.

[pirenzo]

i meant they do what they can. And at least they don't leave it to some poor italian housewive to wipe the blood off the kitchen tiles.

[cybersdorf]

I don't think theyever got as far as the kitchen...
AFAIK there were only two fatalities in the Targa's long history, tey were very lucky.

[PRF]

Poor old Brian Redman came close to death when he crashed his Porsche 908/3 when he understeered off the road, hit a post and the car burst into flames. Brian jumped out ablaze, open face helmet, rolled down a bank to quench the flames. He suffered severe burns to his face. Evidence of which can still be seen today. The year. 1971, Brian was sharing with Jo 'Seppi' Siffert. These two characters having won the event in 1970.

Another English driver to fair well on the Island was perhaps one of the most underated drivers of all time and this being Vic Elford.

PRF