Rounds 12 and 13: revised calendar. IndyCar Harvest Grand Prix, IMS, Oct 1-3 - Page 2

**bjohnsonsmith** · 3 Oct 2020, 19:45 (Ref:4008327)

Quote:

Originally Posted by peebee2

Lol, not on the straights. If you take the wings off they’d do near 300mph in a straight line. But slow as anything round and off the corners.

That's because without the wings, the car produces less drag. However, IndyCars use ground effect and produce most of their downforce from the undertray, not from the wings. So if the undertray is damaged, as Dixon's is, it will adversely affect his straight line speed.

peebee2 · 3 Oct 2020, 19:47 (Ref:4008328)

Ok. A damaged floor can cause disturbance and drag for sure, but the point remains that less downforce on the straights is no bad thing in itself

PS everything above F4 produces most of its downforce from the floor, ground effect car or not.

**bjohnsonsmith** · 3 Oct 2020, 19:53 (Ref:4008329)

Quote:

Originally Posted by peebee2

Ok. A damaged floor can cause disturbance and drag for sure, but the point remains that less downforce on the straights is no bad thing in itself

PS everything above F4 produces most of its downforce from the floor, ground effect car or not.

F1 isn't ground effect and the wings play a far more significant role in producing downforce than they do in an IndyCar. If the floor is damaged, it will produce less downforce and that's what has happened to Dixon's car

peebee2 · 3 Oct 2020, 19:58 (Ref:4008332)

You’d be surprised how Hugh a percentage of the DF comes from the floor in F1.

peebee2 · 3 Oct 2020, 19:59 (Ref:4008333)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

F1 isn't ground effect and the wings play a far more significant role in producing downforce than they do in an IndyCar. If the floor is damaged, it will produce less downforce and that's what has happened to Dixon's car

I understand all that but the claim was it slowed him on the straights. When actually it would be a problem in the bends.

**bjohnsonsmith** · 3 Oct 2020, 20:06 (Ref:4008336)

Congrats to Power, he lead from the front and he ties with Al Unser.

**bjohnsonsmith** · 3 Oct 2020, 20:09 (Ref:4008338)

Quote:

Originally Posted by peebee2

I understand all that but the claim was it slowed him on the straights. When actually it would be a problem in the bends.

But he was slower on the straights. His lap times went down and he was having trouble on the straights, you could see it. The commentary team even mentioned it.

peebee2 · 3 Oct 2020, 20:16 (Ref:4008341)

Yes but that’s not a lack of DF my friend. It’s drag

**bjohnsonsmith** · 3 Oct 2020, 20:22 (Ref:4008343)

Quote:

Originally Posted by peebee2

Yes but that’s not a lack of DF my friend. It’s drag

It's to do with lack of downforce. Scott Dixon in the post race interview said that before the contact with RH-R, the car was pretty lose. A car is lose if it lacks grip and grip is produced by downforce. The damage to the undertray/floor will therefore have made Dixon's car loser still because of the loss off downforce.

peebee2 · 3 Oct 2020, 20:26 (Ref:4008347)

I give up. A car isn’t loose on the straights...

**bjohnsonsmith** · 3 Oct 2020, 20:28 (Ref:4008348)

Quote:

Originally Posted by peebee2

I give up. A car isn’t loose on the straights...

It doesn't have enough grip on the straight it will certainly be slower.

broadrun96 · 3 Oct 2020, 21:14 (Ref:4008353)

WHAT? A car isn't loose in the straights, what the hell are you on about? It can most assuredly be loose on the straights. Listen to the actual drivers and people who build the cars. Oh and the damn on board when yo could hear when spin and watch his hands. That's loose.

peebee2 · 3 Oct 2020, 22:00 (Ref:4008359)

Sorry I just CBA to write paragraphs explaining what oversteer (loose) and understeer (push or tight) actually means for you. Forget it. I’ll pretend downforce equals speed on straights. It’s easier to just agree.

**bjohnsonsmith** · 3 Oct 2020, 22:55 (Ref:4008372)

If the car looses downforce, the tyres loose traction and therefore grip and the car can't go as fast along the straight. That lack of traction to the rear tyres, will also cause them to slide, producing oversteer, as the car goes into a corner. That's what happened to Dixon's car when the floor got damaged.

mstets · 4 Oct 2020, 04:38 (Ref:4008449)

I thought that the racing both days was some of the best in recent memory. Lots of passing for position and no full course yellows in either race. Granted that Power led flag to flag in race 2 but he didn't walk away with it and there were two other contenders for the lead at the end, plus all those about to be lapped cars in the mix.

I haven't looked at the schedule for next year, but I would welcome an additional race on the Indy road course.

peebee2 · 4 Oct 2020, 06:33 (Ref:4008457)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mstets

I thought that the racing both days was some of the best in recent memory. Lots of passing for position and no full course yellows in either race. Granted that Power led flag to flag in race 2 but he didn't walk away with it and there were two other contenders for the lead at the end, plus all those about to be lapped cars in the mix.

I haven't looked at the schedule for next year, but I would welcome an additional race on the Indy road course.

Yes, two good evening’s entertainment for sure. Very enjoyable.

And, as the above shows, you don’t actually need to understand vehicle dynamics and aero concepts to enjoy it LOL!

**bjohnsonsmith** · 4 Oct 2020, 11:24 (Ref:4008488)

Quote:

Originally Posted by peebee2

Yes, two good evening’s entertainment for sure. Very enjoyable.

And, as the above shows, you don’t actually need to understand vehicle dynamics and aero concepts to enjoy it LOL!

Indeed,

**bjohnsonsmith** · 4 Oct 2020, 11:29 (Ref:4008490)

Power's win in Race 2 means he equals Al Unser Sr. in fifth place on the all time winners list, with 39 wins.

Josef Newgarden finished fourth and Scott Dixon was eighth, reducing Dixon's lead to 32 points going into the season finale at St. Peterberg, on October 25th. Dixon needs to finish tenth or worse, if Newgarden is to claim his third, as well as back to back championships.

**bjohnsonsmith** · 4 Oct 2020, 11:35 (Ref:4008492)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mstets

I thought that the racing both days was some of the best in recent memory. Lots of passing for position and no full course yellows in either race. Granted that Power led flag to flag in race 2 but he didn't walk away with it and there were two other contenders for the lead at the end, plus all those about to be lapped cars in the mix.

I haven't looked at the schedule for next year, but I would welcome an additional race on the Indy road course.

This is next year's schedule and it includes two rounds on the IMS road coarse.

https://www.indycar.com/News/2020/10...hedule-Release

mstets · 4 Oct 2020, 18:17 (Ref:4008560)

Could someone explain the points system? I thought from first to tenth it was: 50, 40, 35, 32, 30, 28, 26, 24, 22, 20, and then 1 point less per position down to a minimum of 5 points. If that is accurate, how are bonus points awarded? At the Indy 500 Rahal finished 3rd, didn't lead a lap but was awarded 72 points - seems to me it should have been 70. Sato got 108 points, seems like it should have been 102 if leading a lap is worth 1 bonus point. Askew led the race and finished 30th, so I would think he should have received 12 points, but he got 11. Rossi led the race and finished 27th, received 12 points. Palou did not lead and finished 28th, yet he received one more point than Rossi.

**bjohnsonsmith** · 4 Oct 2020, 18:37 (Ref:4008561)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mstets

Could someone explain the points system? I thought from first to tenth it was: 50, 40, 35, 32, 30, 28, 26, 24, 22, 20, and then 1 point less per position down to a minimum of 5 points. If that is accurate, how are bonus points awarded? At the Indy 500 Rahal finished 3rd, didn't lead a lap but was awarded 72 points - seems to me it should have been 70. Sato got 108 points, seems like it should have been 102 if leading a lap is worth 1 bonus point. Askew led the race and finished 30th, so I would think he should have received 12 points, but he got 11. Rossi led the race and finished 27th, received 12 points. Palou did not lead and finished 28th, yet he received one more point than Rossi.

Drivers receive points if they qualifying in the Fast Nine for the 500, the first 9 places on the grid. The pole sitter gets 9 points, second fastest will gets 8 points and so on down to ninth place, which is 1 point. Rahal qualified 8th so he got 2 points and therefore a total of 72.

NaBUru38 · 5 Oct 2020, 14:29 (Ref:4008687)

The lack of Spanish-language announcers is hitting me harder ever weekend. I really miss Andrés Agulla and Alex Pombo. I struggle to pay attention to English-language speakers, especially after having a big meal.

mstets · 6 Oct 2020, 04:13 (Ref:4008782)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Drivers receive points if they qualifying in the Fast Nine for the 500, the first 9 places on the grid. The pole sitter gets 9 points, second fastest will gets 8 points and so on down to ninth place, which is 1 point. Rahal qualified 8th so he got 2 points and therefore a total of 72.

Thanks for the explanation. I had no idea that Indy 500 qualifying paid bonus points other than to the pole winner and lap leaders.

**bjohnsonsmith** · 6 Oct 2020, 11:57 (Ref:4008822)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mstets

Thanks for the explanation. I had no idea that Indy 500 qualifying paid bonus points other than to the pole winner and lap leaders.

That's ok. The 500 does have its own peculiarities.

mstets · 9 Oct 2020, 04:08 (Ref:4009249)

So aside from the 500 is this the way bonus points are awarded?

Pole position: 3 points

Each lap leader: 1 point

Most laps led: 3? points

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