Lola T 60 & 62

[rkshanahan]

Hi Everyone,
Allen Brown recommended this site to try and gather information on my Lola T60. I have owned the car 10 years after buying it from a friend, who had also owned it about 10 years, always as a roller without engine or trans. My friend bought it from an estate, and it came without history or chassis tag (had been removed for "safe keeping"). I know a little bit about these cars with the help of Robs Lamplough, who raced one from '66 to '68. There were only 12 built, and he remembers one owned by Bowlie Pittard (destroyed), one by John L'Amie (Ireland?), and one by Michele Daghorn (France).
I am hoping to figure out the history of mine, which appears to be an early T60. Is there anywhere that the chassis # would be stamped, other than the chassis plate? Does anyone remember one of these cars going to the states?

rkshanahan

[Bryan Miller]

rkshanahan.

Can only assist by telling you your car is not T60-SL-2 , as that car has been in Australia for many years.
After Midland Racing Partnership this car spent time in Nth.Ireland with Brian Nelson untill 1969 , when it went to D.A.Shells for sale and has been in Australia since at least 1978.

Perhaps you will get more answers on the other cars known and you can do a process of elimination.
Bryan.

[Chris Townsend]

There's a degree of complication here, because the T55 also got described as a T60 later in life, so I've included those here. Also, Midland Racing Partnership had so many that when someone's car is described as 'ex MRP' it's not always a lot of help. Also, variants on the T60, up to the T67 tend to get lumped together.

Anyway: here goes

T55 SL64/1 1964 for Midland Racing Partnership, retained 1965, driven
by David Hobbs/Jose Rosinski/Chris Amon/Paul Hawkins/Roy Pike. 1966 Bill Jones for Phillip Robinson. 1967? 1968: Tony Charnell 1969: Charnell

T55 SL64/2 1964 for John Willment Racing, driven by Paul Hawkins. 1965: Willment for Jo Schlesser and Tony Hegbourne. 1966-67: Not known
1968 Geddes Yeates as F.Ford

T60 SL60-1 1965: MRP: Richard Attwood/Chris Amon/Paul Hawkins;
1966: MRP: Beckwith; Gardner (Albi) sold to 'Baker' for Harry Stiller

T60 SL60-2 1965: MRP: Tony Maggs/Frank Gardner/Paul Hawkins/Jo Bonnier/Chris Amon/Richard Attwood 1966: MRP: Frank Gardner/Paul Hawkins 1967: Probably the car for sale by MRP in April. 'ex Gardner'

T60 SL60-3 1965 MRP: John Surtees/Frank Gardner 1966: MRP Spare car

T60 SL60-4 1965: Eric Offenstadt [late in season] 1966: Offenstadt
1967: Peter Marchesi [F3]; 1968: Brian Cullen [FL] 1969: Brian Cullen [FL] 1970: Trevor Scarrat [Monoposto]

T60 SL60-5 1965/6: Not known. 1967: Steve Thompson [F3] 1968: Steve Thompson [FL]; 1969: Steve Thompson. 1970 not known, though I suspect retained by Thompson. 1971: Chris Featherstone [Monoposto]

T61 SL61-6 1966: MRP: Richard Attwood/David Hobbs/Alan Rees. 1967: Ian Ashley [F3]

T62 SL62-8 1966: MRP John Surtees

T64 SL62-8 Not known before summer 1967, though perhaps the Pittard car [see below]. 1967 Robs Lamplough [F2] 1968 John L'Amie [FL]

Cars with unknown chassis numbers.
Brian Nelson [1968-69] A T60 'ex Attwood'
Chris Featherston [1969-70] A T60 used in Monoposto. Wrecked. The ex Thompson car is bought to replace it
Boley Pittard A T64 used in Italian F3 in early 1967. Pittard died of burns after the car caught fire on the grid, or in a race warm up.

Cars with problem model numbers:
The T67 This was an F3 variant of the 64. Three built in 1967: All sold to Italy so one may be the Pittard car.
Michel Dagorne races one in F3

Dave Morgan races a 'T62' in F3 in 1968, but it was apparently bought in Italy so may have been a T67 rather than the ex Surtees T62

Guy Edwards races a T62 in F3 in 1969. I suspect this is the Morgan car.

Chris

[Bryan Miller]

Chris.
Your unknown chassis number car is SL-2.
The owner of the Lola untill about 2 years ago had lengthy correspondence with Brian Nelson , at that time in 1988 at an address in County Down, Northern Ireland , in which Brian Nelson advises he purchased car from David Baker at Midland in Oct.1965 less eng. and box. Nelson fitted ford twin cam and mk.5and ran in some clubevents at end 1965.
He states at a meeting at Kirkistown in Nov. 1965 he hit barrier after running of road, damagingl.f. wheel, by the time he recieved new wheels from Lola the season was over.
Car ran in that form in Libre events untill sold to D.A.Shells in 1969.
In the letter he advised Don Black he still had 2 spare wheels , this in 1988 , I believe Don Black purchased the wheels.
Bryan.

[Peter Mallett]

Welcome rkshanahan.

[Bryan Miller]

Chris.
Just trying to compare your call out on SL-2 , as against Brian Nelson's letter, and it does'nt work .
We also have a letter from Lola 25-1-78 , in which they advise from their records that Brian Nelson owned the car at one stage, but don't specify a date .
Perhaps Nelson got his dates wrong when trying to remember back 20 or so years, if your trail in firm all the way into 1967.
The car does carry the chassis plate.
Bryan.

[David McKinney]

Chris
Starting your list with T55s makes sense, but doesn't tell the full story. For that you need to go back to the FJ Mk5a, of which nine were built for 1963.
With the change of formula for 1964, one of these was rebuilt for F3 and relabelled T53, and four more converted to F2 spec as T54s. To add to the confusion, these were usually called T55s, though a T55 WAS built for F2 later in 1964. On top of that, another converted 5a was rebadged T55, and so was one of the T54s...
All this background is necessary because I believe the Willment car, SL2/64, was a T54, not a T55. My records show this being campaigned by Paul Tomlin in FL in 1966 and Geddes Yeates in FL in 1967.
64/2 (or 2/64) was a T55 converted from a Mk5a (without, it seems, having been a T54!)

Turning to the T60s, I have Mac Dagorne racing SL60-2 in 1967 F3, but am more comfortable with Nelson having it at that stage
SL60-5 was an MRP car (of course) raced by Hawkins in early 1965, and by Thompson from 1966

I have Ashley's F3 car listed as a T62 (ex-Attwood) - not the T61

Finally, Keith Laney bought a T60 in the UK and raced it in New Zealand around 1972. It was later sold to Australia. Is this SL60-2?
Bryan?

[Chris Townsend]

Bryan

SL60-2 is firm for 1965/1966 if yopu believe F1R. The 1967 atrribution was specualtive based on MRP having an ex Gardner car for sale, and this one seeming to have a fair amount of Gardner in its history. So, we could fit Nelson in on chassis 2, which takes care of another gap on Allen's F5000 database in 1969. Any suggestions on what car they might have been selling?

David:
Thanks for the extra detail. Agree that we should include Mk5s and will post what I have soon. Might the Dagorne car have been 67-2?

Chris

[Chris Townsend]

David

Going back to my notes I see that for the Willment T60 I have 'rebuilt from Winkelmann Mk5A'. I don't have many notes on T54-Mk5s beyond what's in F1R

BRJ 57 rebuilt from Mk5A for MRP: Attwood 1964
BRJ 58 similar MRP spare car 1964
BRJ 59 similar MRP for Maggs 1964

I have 1966 R.Jennings [Bob Jennings, who was also selling the Mo Nunn 41?] selling '1964 Lola ex Maggs, raced three times since sold by MRP' so presumably BRJ 59

Chris

[Peter Mallett]

Got to say that whilst this isn't my particular field of interest I'm really pleased that people are able to swap this info and let others learn from it at the same time.

[DaveM]

Chris...

"Dave Morgan races a 'T62' in F3 in 1968, but it was apparently bought in Italy so may have been a T67 rather than the ex Surtees T62"

Don't know if this helps, but here is Dave Morgan at Silverstone in April 68. In case it doesn't show up on screen, the name on the side is Bowdown Racing. Memory isn't pukka, but I seem to remember it was red over dark blue.

[rkshanahan]

Bryan, Chris, and David;
Thanks for the prompt reply. I have some additional info that might help fill the gaps:
Robs Lamplough reports he purchased four unsold T60-64's from Lola at the end of the '66 season, in partnership with Frank Williams. Robs kept the ex-Surtees car for himself and later sold it on to John L'Amie, so the T64 SL62-8 and T62 SL62-8 are the same car.
Of the other three cars, one was sold to Eric Offenstadt (F2 with BRM engine), one to Boley Pittard, and one to Michel Dagorne. Robs is unsure of the chassis #s of these three.
SL62-11 was in the US with Barry Blackmore and recently sold. I inspected this car and details on the chassis led me to believe my car is an earlier version (m. cylinder mounts, steering rack height, front rocker arm pivots)
I have tried to sort out the different models, but the only Lola books I can find are a mess. The Mk5's have a tube chassis and outboard front suspension, the T60's have a steel monocoque chassis and inboard front suspension, but what did the T55's have? How could Lola "rebuild" a tube chassis car into a monocoque car?
Rob
Rob

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by rkshanahan
The Mk5's have a tube chassis and outboard front suspension, the T60's have a steel monocoque chassis and inboard front suspension, but what did the T55's have? How could Lola "rebuild" a tube chassis car into a monocoque car?

I didn't say the Mk5s (or the Mk5as, which were a different model) were rebuilt as T60s - they became T53s, T54s or T55s
I did say it was confusing

[rkshanahan]

Dave,
You are ceretainly right about the 'confusing' bit. What I was tryjing to do was sort out the photos I have found by model. It would seem that the T53-55's are also a tube frame with an outboard front suspension, but I was just not sure. This would make it easy to sort out the T60's in side photos by the lack of front trailing links, as in the photo posted by DaveM.
Rob

[Chris Townsend]

My apologies, I think my typo of 'the Willment T60' being rebuilt from an ex Winkelmann Mk5 is causing some confusion. It should be 'the Willment T55 [SL64-2]' which would make sense.

I think from the info about Lamplough buying four cars at the end of 1966, we can get an idea of which chassis those were.
We know that Lamplough kept 64-8 the ex Surtees car, before passing it on to L'Amie
We know that the Brian Cullen car 60-4 was the ex Offenstadt car.
We know that all the other cars up to 64-8 have some kind of history that doesn't leave room for either Pittard or Dagorne, except for 60-1 and 60-3, which have no history (so far) after the end of 1966. This would tally with them disappearing to the continent, and perhaps, in the case of the Pittard car, being destroyed.

If the build was 12 cars we are left with four cars, 9-12, which could be the three Italian F3s plus one other

Do we know what the history of 62-11 was in the US?

Chris

[Chris Townsend]

rkshanahan

What was the name of the estate from which your friend purchased the car? Where was it [whereabouts in USA I guess]

Chris

[allenbrown]

Hi Rob

I told you this would work!

Allen

[Bryan Miller]

David.
Keith Laney sold T60/SL-2 to Australian film producer Matt Carroll,who is a Lola /Lotus nut,car ended up with Don B
Black , changed hands about 2 years ago to Robert Tweedie.
Bryan.

[David McKinney]

Ta vm Bryan
I never knew the origin of the Laney car - it raced only in small events in NZ (and didn't do much good in them!)

[Ted Walker]

I think Peter Denty has the the Chris Featerstone car, and hopes to resore it "one day"

[Ted Walker]

Sorry about the "orrible" spelling, but only just got up !!

[rkshanahan]

Chris,
I have notes that list the estate as that of Earl Anderson in Texas. There was also a story about the car being run at the Indy 500, which I dismissed as impossible. Then a friend pointed out just last week that people would enter bogus cars for the Indy 500 just to get the package of passes that came with an entry. If this highly unlikely scenario is true, I suppose there is a chance that the historian at Indy would have a record of it. I will give it a try.
I will also see if I can find out anything about 62-11's history here in the states.
Rob

[Roger H]

When I aquired a T60 in the mid 80's I was given a list chassis numbers with the original customer, the colour as it left the factory, and if it was F2 or F3. Mine had been converted to use as a Formula Super Vee and the rear of the chassis around the engine had been cut off (bodged). The tub looked like a steel copy of a Lotus 25 and didn't have bag tanks. The inner parts of the tub was coated with a fuel tank sealant and left to itself. I sold the remains to a guy in the N.W. of the USA and thats the last I heard of it.
This is the list I was given and I reproduce it here without further comment!
60/1 Lythgoe,F3, Blue
60/2 MRP, F2, Blue
60/3 MRP, F2, Blue
60/4 Offendstadt, F2 BRM, Black
60/5 Lythgoe,F3, Red
61/6 MRP,F2, Blue
62/7 Dragoni, F3, Red
62/8 Surtees, F2, Blue
62/9 Dragoni, F3, Yellow
62/10 Williams, F3, Red
62/11 Williams, F3, Green
62/12 Williams, F3, Yellow

NB another note says that 60/1 was 1.5" shorter.

Hope this doesn't further muddy the issue
Roger

[rkshanahan]

Roger,
Thanks for an amazing piece of information! One of the funny things about the info from Robs Lamplough is that he had no record of the chassis #'s of the cars that passed through his hands, but he did remember the colors:
Dagorne-Yellow
Pittard-Red
Lamplough-Blue
Offendstadt-Black
Do you remember the chassis # of your car? Since my chassis is still intact, I can eliminate your chassis # as a possibility for my car. I will also try to strip some paint off my bodywork and see if I can determine the original color.
Rob

[Chris Townsend]

This is a fantastic piece of information, which seems to open a few questions, even as it solves some.
I'm puzzled as to why [and how] at the end of 66 Lamplough sells Eric Offenstadt a BRM engined car he's been using since autumn 1965. Offenstadt has the only BRM motor in a Lola, so his chassis is pretty distinctive.
On the other hand, there is the reference to Frank Williams here, whom Lamplough says was in on the deal. Were the three cars 10/11/12 part of the batch that was purchased, or was this FW up to something else later.
And is Dragoni really Dagorne or an agent for the Italian market?

Chris