[FIA GT] FIA GT: Maserati testing - Fiorano

[BSchneiderFan]

Originally posted by Patrick B
Plus they havn't built a single road version yet. I don't care if they say they will build 100 cars... until they do the car should not be allowed to run... Unless they enter it in the LMP1 GTP class, which is where i think it belongs.

Forgive my ignorance, but has anyone suggested that the Maserati WILL compete before the roadgoing versions are produced?

[Patrick B]

I did read somewhere that they planned on having the car on track in the later half of the 2004 season. I don't see how they can launch and build 100 road cars by then.

[chunterer]

I'm still torn between giving approval to what is clearly a fabulous racing sports car or dismissing it as another over the top build excercise in order to try and wipe the floor with everything else.

History is full of such excersises we know, ( Group 2 ETC Capris and Bee Ems, latter day Grp A Touring car racing,RS500's and M3s then FIA GT1' Mercs and Porsches) but today's motor sport is trying to provide entertainment factor as well as pure competition?

Unfortunately sports car racing has always had a bit of an image problem. Sure fast big brand cars turn people on but Lon distance racing is specialist and not always appealing to joe public.

If the Mazza's performance is going to be 'equalled' out, if it gets too quick fine. But i can't see the point of developing a car like this if it gonna be allowed to do it's full job?!

By the way for my money the Saleen, top car as it it is, is clearly homage to the McLaren. That car was the only GT car of the time built for the road and then became a race car in it s original profile. Ditto Saleen, Lister (in lesser numbers) and Ferrari 550/575. That's fine.

The Mazza is only remotely based on a road car, regardless of its performance and it's more than likely to be based on a Ferrari?!. I reckon they should have to make far more than 100, decent car or not, or open a new class for cars like this and not put them into road based GT's!! it's just taking things too far.

[SALEEN S7R]

Im afraid I dont see though how Jag thinks that LMP 2 class cars will be faster than GTS class cars, sure the cars have 500bhp+ and weight only 750kg, but the lead GTS cars such as the Ferrari 575 produce around 650bhp, and only weight 1100kg, not much heavier and the downforce the car produces is similar to that of a LMP 2 class car, and at places like Le Mans the extra 150bhp will really come into things, and I think that at LM at least the GTS machinery should be faster, especially when u consider there will be no new LMP 2 cars in time for this years LM, so that means the older LMP 675 machinery will have to run with the 2003 restrictors, a 80 litre fuel tank and a 180cm rear wing, while the GTS cars will be running with a 200cm rear wing, 2002 restrictors (10% larger) and a 100 litre fuel tank.

The Maserati and cars like it such as the Ferrari 575, Lambourgini Murcielago, Saleen S7R, etc are all road going supercars, theres not more than 25 road versions of the Saleen S7R im sure, and just how many are there of the Ferrari 575? Anyone know for sure? And as far as Im aware cars like the Corvette C5R there are hardly any road versions of, sure theres the Corvette C5, but not the C5R. The Maserati is the Enzo, modifed slightly true but the Enzo all the same, re badged as a Maserati.

[Cadete]

I must say that after the initial shock I'm starting to see the Maserati with better eyes. The aerodynamics are nothing like those of a Bentley, it really is a racing version of the Enzo.

But other problems have popped up, one is about whether it is valid to run this race even before road versions are built, the other is what chunterer has said.
In my opinion, normal specifications alone should keep the performance of the cars relatively equal, and a team should not be penalized for doing a great job. Just think of 2002 F1 championship, everyone was mad at Ferrari but all their did was developing the best car of that year, it's not their fault that the other teams were not as good.

[SALEEN S7R]

I agree on the point that the car should not race until their are signifcant road versions available, but if there are enough road versions to meet the homlogation reqiurements then it should race, if there arent then it shoudnt race until there are signifcant numbers. Just though id make my point of view on that matter, I welcome this car into FIA GT with open arms personally, but not at ANY cost.

[Mal]

Bearing in mind that the Maserati is accepted as the racing version of the Enzo is it not true that 300 odd road going cars have already been built. Is there anything to say that the race version and the road version have to be branded the same?

[Cadete]

Originally posted by Mal
Bearing in mind that the Maserati is accepted as the racing version of the Enzo is it not true that 300 odd road going cars have already been built. Is there anything to say that the race version and the road version have to be branded the same?

the credit should go at least to the same make, so race it as a Ferrari Enzo and not as a Maserati. I know they are from the same group, but I don't like when companies use motorsports just to promote.... must be why i prefer privateers...

still on the Maserati and the new breed of supercars, i would prefer to see them still in GTS, with regulations to enable the other GTS cars (575, viper, etc...) competitive. No need to create a new division

[SALEEN S7R]

I agree Cadete, there is no need for a new seperate class for the new breed of supercars. Theres nothing to say though that the Ferrari 575 will not be as fast as the Maserati, is there? As for the Viper well lets face it the car is almost at the end of its competitve International life, id be very suprised to see any Vipers in this years LM, although we will probably see some for a few years yet in the Nurburgring 24hrs and Spa 24hrs, and maybe 1 or 2 in the FIA GT championship for a while yet. But the car as it is at the moment is no longer competitve, even with the revised suspension and areodynamic package it was running with in 2003.

As for whether or not the Maserati should stick with the Ferrari Enzo badge or not, well I dunno it dosent really bother me that much, but then I can see why Ferrari have done this, at the moment the Ferrari marque is very sucessful in GT racing at the moment with the 360, 550 and 575, why enter yet another Ferrari into sportscar racing? Its in their own intrest to give the credit to Maserati, and lets face it if the car was kept to its orginal name the Ferrari Enzo come 2004 FIA GT championship we would have a grid full of Ferrari's.

[Cadete]

I used the Viper as an example, I could have used Lister as well

But just to clear my opinion on the GTS class and supercars, I don't want it turning into a GT1 type class, where you saw protos and not GTs. This may bring a problem, because how can a modified GT road car challenge the built to race LMP1s in Le Mans? Maybe we could enlarge the things you can modify in the GTs, but with care so as not to turn them into protos, or maybe play with fuel efficiency, or raw hp opposed to the LMPs downforce?

[SALEEN S7R]

But the Lister is also dying Cadete, how many races did it win in FIA GT last year? As for the class turning into a GT1 type class, well neither do i, but we have to face the facts areodynamic improvements are always going to happen with new cars. The Maserati is advanced yes, but its still a road going car, just with a slightly better areo package than most of the others in its class, given a bit of time the other manufacturers will respond. The Maserati isnt that expensive to buy either, $100,000 more than a Ferrari 575, and less than to purchase say a Saleen S7R, hardly like GT1 when the costs of the cars was going into Millions of dollars....

[Mal]

Originally posted by Cadete
I don't like when companies use motorsports just to promote

Unfortunately that is exactly why ALL manufacterers enter any form of racing.

Ferrari is already a very successful brand wheras Maserati needs to be pulled out of the slump steming from years of bad management by Citroen and others to revive a reputation that was once at least the equal of Ferrari's

The Ferrari group is using sportscar racing to promote the revival of Maserati road cars, you may not like it but its a fact.

[Mal]

Originally posted by Cadete
. must be why i prefer privateers...

Also it has already been announced that JMB will take the first customer Maserati so the car will be raced by privateers.

[Mal]

Just as an aside the Viper has been raced in Europe as The Chrysler Viper for years and yet the original road car was the Dodge Viper. It was raced in Europe under the Chrysler banner to promote Chrysler as the Dodge brand was not sold in Europe, so this is hardly a new thing

[Cadete]

Unfortunately that is exactly why ALL manufacterers enter any form of racing.

Ferrari is already a very successful brand wheras Maserati needs to be pulled out of the slump steming from years of bad management by Citroen and others to revive a reputation that was once at least the equal of Ferrari's

The Ferrari group is using sportscar racing to promote the revival of Maserati road cars, you may not like it but its a fact.

Also it has already been announced that JMB will take the first customer Maserati so the car will be raced by privateers.

I know that it's why they do it, but they could have done a new car for Maserati instead of simply rebadging a Ferrari... it would cost more, take more time, but it would be a Maserati, not a Ferrari... i guess i'm an idealist

And when I meant that I preferred privateers over manufacterers I didn't mean regarding making the cars, of course the manufacterers are needed there and that it serves their purpose of publicity, but I prefer to see them racing from privateer teams (and it's their only option in FIA GT, since it has rules against factory-backed teams). Take the Bentleys, for example, they come, spend a few years getting fit and they win. Then they're out of the competition. A privateer team sticks around, maybe with other car but will continue.

It doesn't sound very coherent, I know, I need to try to make myself more clear....

And my opinion regarding the Maserati has changed during this thread, I no longer opose it's entry in the FIA GT, since it is not that much of a GTP and is run by privateer teams, but I hope they don't enter LMES or Le Mans with a full factory-backed team that will have a budget too big for the other teams to keep up.

[SALEEN S7R]

Cadete, what is your view with regards to Corvette entering the ALMS and LM? Budgets dont come much bigger than that of the Corvette squad, just look at the driving line up for LM, Oliver Gavin, Jan Magnussen and Oliver Beretta, they dont come cheaply. Having said that they were beaten by privateer Ferrari 550s in LM albeit built by Prodrive so having a factory operation in the mix dosent always guarntee sucess. Dont forget that come 2005 Aston Martin will be back with Prodrive in the FIA GT championship in the GT class, will Maserati be able to beat the Prodrive engineered cars? Will be intresting to see.

[Mal]

I would be very surprised if thay dont enter LMES and especially LeMans by 2005. Whether its as a factory team or a full works backed team remains to be seen, but remember that most works teams are run by a private team, the difference is that when it is works backed they is a much larger budget.

A lot will depend upon how other manufacturers approach it as and when they choose to enter.

I for one want to see serveral top manufacturers fighting it out at LeMans. Something we havent seen since the demise of GT1.

[Dani Filth]

ratel will probably want to recreate some sort of GT1 using the supercar regs .. but for the moment with 2-3 cars eligible .. it;s not interesting so he's gonna keep the supercars to GT2 level until enough supercars are build from different manufacturers so the new GT1 can be a show

[Mal]

Originally posted by Dani Filth
ratel will probably want to recreate some sort of GT1 using the supercar regs .. but for the moment with 2-3 cars eligible .. it;s not interesting so he's gonna keep the supercars to GT2 level until enough supercars are build from different manufacturers so the new GT1 can be a show

At which point the GT1 and LMP1 regs will be amalgamated so that all global series have the same regs - heres hoping!

[Cadete]

Originally posted by SALEEN S7R
Cadete, what is your view with regards to Corvette entering the ALMS and LM? Budgets dont come much bigger than that of the Corvette squad, just look at the driving line up for LM, Oliver Gavin, Jan Magnussen and Oliver Beretta, they dont come cheaply. Having said that they were beaten by privateer Ferrari 550s in LM albeit built by Prodrive so having a factory operation in the mix dosent always guarntee sucess. Dont forget that come 2005 Aston Martin will be back with Prodrive in the FIA GT championship in the GT class, will Maserati be able to beat the Prodrive engineered cars? Will be intresting to see.

I know it doesn't garantee sucess, but it helps. I really enjoyed the Ferrari Prodrive win in Le Mans because we saw a small budget team beating a big one And I agree, it will be good to see what the Prodrive DB9 will do against the Maserati.

Originally posted by Mal
I for one want to see serveral top manufacturers fighting it out at LeMans. Something we havent seen since the demise of GT1.

I prefer to see several privateer teams running with cars from top manufacturers, simply because I know that the year after the winner will probably stick around. I know I sound naive sometimes, and I am, after all, I'm a young person who just a few months ago started being interested in motorsport outside F1 and WRC, and sometimes I still try to forget the ammount of business over sport that exists nowadays....

[Dani Filth]

Originally posted by Mal
At which point the GT1 and LMP1 regs will be amalgamated so that all global series have the same regs - heres hoping!

i would not mind

[917Addicted]

hum, this maserati is pointless

new gt1, don't you think? Hum, porsche built 25 road-going gt1s (and I think mercedes did the same with theirs clk-gtr). anyone wanting to race these 2 beats??

And JMB is as private as alex job or freisinger are.... I think this will be gt1 all over again

BTW, hi cadete, seen you already at rsc and gplpt (lá sou o gil abobeleira )

[SALEEN S7R]

Freisinger are a Privateer team 917 Addicted, yes they have factory support in that the Porsche factory gives them the latest equipment first and lends them Porsche factory drivers but thats within the rules, the actual team is run by the Freisinger Operation of Mansfred Freisinger, as for JMB since when have they had factory backing? As far as Im aware Ferrari havent upgraded any of the cars for them and havent lent JMB any of the Ferrari factory drivers, the JMB operation is a privateer outfit, unless of course u can prove otherwise?

[Cadete]

Whether this will become GT1 is in the and of the rule makers, but their current aproach (no official factory teams) suggests that they aren't going the same way... let us hope....

and hello there gil, i'm starting to think you're following me

[RacingManiac]

Maser annouced the car will be made in 25 cars production number....I don't know what's the current homologation requirement for a GTS car though....

BTW, I don't think Prodrive can be qualified as a small budget team....they did managed to employ expensive driver as well and the size of their operation(accrossed the atlantic I might add) during ALMS race rivals most of the factory team......