Ralt RT 2

[allenbrown]

Originally posted by dereklola
After all that I tend to agree that Toleman #1 seems to have been the hardworked first car that Henton used and then became the spare car after he got #3. Then it went to ZA as RT2-152. Gove and his electric pencil are #2 which was the more gently used Dougal car. And the remaining car, #3, became Vesuvio/Flammini for 80/81 F2, then Genoa/Romano/Fangio for 83/84 CanAm.

I thought it was worth retrieving this post from earlier in the thread. Now that we know Toleman only had 152, 153 and 154, it makes complete sense that "RT2/1" went to South Africa as RT2-152. Gove's "RT2/2" would therefore be RT2-153 leaving the ex-Henton Enna pole car that went to Italy as RT2-154.

It is possible Toleman swapped 153 and 154 around but I can't see any real reason to believe that.

How "167" became associated with Gove's car will have to remain a mystery for now. I may be taking a gamble, but in my Can-Am records I'm going to call the Gove car 153 and the Genoa Racing car 154.

Allen

[dereklola]

Allen, Adam, Dan, Jeremy and others - thx for the exquisite detective work - as I've said before my main interest is in vintage racing these cars but the history scramble has been fascinating. I totally agree with Allen's summary above and really thank Adam for joining the fray. I'd still like to know how he came by the Ralt list!

Derek

[dereklola]

Adam

I may have missed this - but is 167 shown on your Ralt list at all? If so - what as? And 168? As posted much earlier I have a letter from Stuart Barron at March (after they bought Ralt) dated 10 Feb 1994 stating that RT2 chassis nos were 172 and 181. The letter was addressed to a previous owner so I'm not sure what the question was.

Just to continue is 180 shown? I have RT4-180 and that same letter from March confirms 180 was an RT4. Are there other early RT4's listed. I'd love to get such a list since they "surface" every so often in vintage racing here.

Finally who was Brian Robertson - and which side of the Atlantic?

Derek

[Adam Ferrington]

Derek,

The list came from Ralt, after they were bought by March via the son of a friend of mine.

172 & 181 ARE listed as RT2s

167 was an RT1 Atlantic for Brian Robertson, who was the North American agent.

168 was an RT3 F3 for Bertram Schafer in Germany

180 is shown as an RT4 Atlantic shipped to Robertson on 30 June 1980. The Gearbox No. is shown as FT1350. This is the third RT4 listed, after 162 and 178.

Adam

[dereklola]

Adam

Great info. How far does your Ralt list go - 200? 300? 700? Or in years 1981, 82? 87?

If we started an RT4 topic could you extract the first year or so?

Derek

[Dan Rear]

I met Steve W last night, who's a big UK Sprint/Climbing fan. He had a pic of an RT4, the ex-Patrick Wood car, now owned by Richard Williams. From Steve's site, he has this down as -157, which I'm dubious about, given that the Toleman RT2s were 151-154. Anyone know any more re this car ?

[dereklola]

So that make three Lancastrians talking together!

According to the chassis book Adam sent me -157 was an RT1 Super Vee delivered to a John Nielson sometime in 1979 [date too faint to read]. Had Arch Motors tub 79/209. Nielson also had RT5-188 Super Vee delivered a year later. Both had Hewland Mk9 gearboxes.

So -157 was not originally an RT4. The first RT4 was 162 delivered sometime on 1979, then 178 in March 1980, then 180 [mine] in June 1980, then hundreds of them followed on.

Also - minor correction - the 3 Toleman RT2s were 152-154. 151 was also an RT1 Super Vee.

[Steve Wilkinson]

Derek and Dan, just wait until Easter. I will be seeing Richard at Croft so will TREBLE check the chassis plate.

Funny how us Lancastrians tend to gravitate!

[dereklola]

"I will TREBLE check the chassis plate" - if you want any more let me know - I have several here in my desk!

Try looking for an Arch Motors No on the front surface of the tub front plate - top left or top right - or anywhere else around the front of the tub. Should be 79-209. Might be partially hidden by the suspension mounting plate.

Also check whether the front ARB [anti-roll bar, swaybay, whatever they are called now] is mounted on the top of the front of the tub or on the front surface. I've seen some RT5s with them on the front but all RT4s seem to have them on top.

Croft at Easter? Early Easter? Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

[Dan Rear]

Derek, -157 the Neilson FSV car, would have been early 79. The Bernard Hunter RT1 FAt, was -145, and that came out early 79. I think -162 would have been the 1st Mallock FAt, he used it first of all at Brands in late Sept 79.

[dereklola]

Dan - I've no problem with that - on the photocopy list that Adam sent me the early dates are all but invisible - as if they might have faded, or been written in pencil or some other colour that didn't copy, or even erased. I don't know. A 7 and a 9 are just barely discernable on one line.

Adam - are those dates legible on your copy?

[Chris Townsend]

Dan

If Mallock does race 162 [and I haven't got that far with 1979 results yet...] it's a try out for the works, because that car was consigned to Robertson at Ralt American. Don't suppose anyone's got a nice colour photo of it?

157 delivered 25.4.79

Derek, do you have a history for 180 prior to Jeremy Hill and after Gary Revesz?
Shall we start an RT4 thread?

Chris

[Dan Rear]

Originally Posted by Chris Townsend

Dan

If Mallock does race 162 [and I haven't got that far with 1979 results yet...] it's a try out for the works, because that car was consigned to Robertson at Ralt American. Don't suppose anyone's got a nice colour photo of it?

157 delivered 25.4.79

Derek, do you have a history for 180 prior to Jeremy Hill and after Gary Revesz?
Shall we start an RT4 thread?

Chris

From dim and distant the MN that covered that meeting had a b/w photo of the car, the only time Mallock used it that year. Not surprisingly, he won !

[allenbrown]

I just spotted something in some 1979 Motoring News acquired today at Beaulieu. MN's Mugello F2 report (24 May 1979 pp16,17) says Henton was in "the original" RT2 and Dougal briefly tested the "long overdue second car". Then, in the results, Henton's car is called "RT2/152", although no other chassis numbers are quoted.

So this confirms what we deduced from Adam's information, that the first RT2 was 152 and no second car appeared until well into the season.

[Dan Rear]

On the HGP thread on 'Historic Motor Racing Today', I see on the entry list, Eric Lang entered in an RT2. I presume this is the F3/3000 racer from the mid-80s here, and its an ex Toleman car. Anyone ?

[driftwood]

yes the eric lang is the f3/300 racer from the 80`s
i met him 4 yrs ago at BRICS racing rt4 car
I embarrassed him by saying i remember as a kid at school him racing with dumfries scott jones etc- he is the same age give or take 24 months as me

there was an rt2 in usa was in Fl for sale 2 years ago cant recall the tag#

[Dan Rear]

I recall some time ago, perhaps years now, we discussed the Paul Brooks (??) 'Hornet' car. Did we decide how much this was his own car, and how much an RT4?? It definitely looked like an RT2/4.

[driftwood]

i know where the car is will ask the man who has it

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by Adam Ferrington

RT2s from the Ralt list
Note :- before c/no 151 type no. was not listed but I believe all were RT1s

RT2-152 Toleman F2
RT2-153 Toleman F2
RT2-154 Toleman F2
RT2-172 Robertson (agent) marked Can-Am - delivered 12/6/80
RT2-181 Cassani F2
RT2-278 Stanley F2 delivered 18/2/82

George McMillan ran a Ralt RT2 in 1983 (maybe also in 1982 - I'm not sure yet). I just spoke with George and he bought the last customer RT2 from a lad who'd only driven it once, in the rain. When I suggested Wyatt Stanley, he confirmed that was him. The car had an ex-Warwick Hart 420 engine.

George sold the car to a hillclimber in Aberdeenshire who we may find in libre races at Ingliston in 1984.

[Chris Townsend]

By 1989 the ex Stanley car was being run by Martin Chittenden

Chris

[allenbrown]

George just phoned me back (in the middle of the match!) to say he'd remembered who he sold the Ralt to. Ron Cumming.

[driftwood]

Hoots mon i dinna remember him ha`in a Ralt to race Marches he had 4
1 742 with Esprit body GA v6 motor
2 then he had the stratos from John churchill 832 ( ex ZA sigma car) with BMW M12
3 then he acquired andy bartons AC3000 with hart ( now has stratos body & duratec fitted)
4 he had 832 with mazda ex sigma car fitted BMW m12 i had the roller # 15 ex James Gresham racing F2 team car

[Dan Rear]

From reading '82 A/Spurts recently, the Stanley 'RT2' was entered by Ebor Motorsports. This wasn't a York connection apparently, but Rick Whyman up in Oldham. The car is for sale in mid-82 from an 061- no., Rick's I presume. Looks like George McM bought it late 82/early 83, raced it for a while in Scotland, the sold it to Cumming. Did Cumming later convert it to a GT, prior to it going to the States?

[driftwood]

Ron had marches not ralts
i know rt2 cars where in usa but also 1 was in europe doing Interserie racing and then 1 appeared in 94 red with elf sticker at an auction ted williams bought it raced in 1 Boss race then car was sold to usa no idea on the chassis#

[Dan Rear]

George McM said he sold his RT2 to Cumming, DW.