Chevron B48

[driftwood]

Guys I have spoken to Ray and asked questions and had the following answers are you happy now??
Allen DONT mention the Musetti car !!

1 Did you have chevron b45 car? I believe ony 1 survives of the the 4 built now in usa
No-I had b48 chassis with plate was updated from b42 then back dated to a b42 spec with 48 tag -ken brill raced aurora as a b42.Later I sold it to stuart ridge to david seton in scotland then to another sprinter hillclimb man carl amos lost track here where the car wentI ran it as "B45" in atlantic spec. Terry Fisher had it in 1981 from Brill

2 The B40 car you had in 93 is the car that Crowson now has ?
yes
Allen Brown said B40-77-08 Opert for Laffite and others [Hart] 1977 - Opert for Prost 1978 - Gibson 1979 - Harper 1980 ... Ames 1984-86 ... Hill 1988-90 ... Crowson 2006

3 Did you have any Chevron b48 cars?
I had pukka car 1980 from creighton brown/ Project 4 set up but not run as project entry was like a new car !!
I sold to norrie galbraith 80 or 81 - he ran with bmw engine?
car then poss to father/son yorkshire painter decorator type people I cant recall their name right now( i kno wu guys ar escreaming it!! ) may have had the car ( they also had other chevrons & ralt f3000 cars) then to steve jewell Im sure it was the "Hark sound "team car for huub rothengater
Allen Brown said
Ray Rowan in B48-79-04 (ex-Terry Fisher) in 1982 then had Stuart Ridge in B48-79-04 (ex-Fisher, Rowan) in 1987


4 You had march 742 or B car was this ex cramer car?
No car was bought from leeds willy wood/ bill wood was the ex musetti car in 762 format ex aurora The carwas then sold to john beattie raced in monoposto he fitted 742 body back on it

5 Are rod fisher and terry fisher related? no relation
rod is Ray brother in law -terry is few 100 meters down the road

Ray said he also later had march 783 ex chico serra converted to "78b" spec fitted the 762 bdx and added the ft200 to it Later I sold to brian fisher who shunted it then sold as damaged parts car to??

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by driftwood

Guys I have spoken to Ray and asked questions and had the following answers are you happy now??
Allen DONT mention the Musetti car !!

1 Did you have chevron b45 car? I believe ony 1 survives of the the 4 built now in usa
No-I had b48 chassis with plate was updated from b42 then back dated to a b42 spec with 48 tag -ken brill raced aurora as a b42.Later I sold it to stuart ridge to david seton in scotland then to another sprinter hillclimb man carl amos lost track here where the car wentI ran it as "B45" in atlantic spec. Terry Fisher had it in 1981 from Brill

4 You had march 742 or B car was this ex cramer car?
No car was bought from leeds willy wood/ bill wood was the ex musetti car in 762 format ex aurora The carwas then sold to john beattie raced in monoposto he fitted 742 body back on it

Ray said he also later had march 783 ex chico serra converted to "78b" spec fitted the 762 bdx and added the ft200 to it Later I sold to brian fisher who shunted it then sold as damaged parts car to??

Anyone have the chassis numbers for these three cars by any chance?

[driftwood]

steve i said the 48 car was chassis no as per allen browns comments

the Huub R car # is mentioned elsewhere on this thread
i had to leave somink for u guys to look up

[allenbrown]

Steve

The B42 was B42-78-14 - ex-Agostini (1978), Brill (1979) and Fisher (1980).

The March '742' is a mystery much discussed on the March 722 to 772 thread. Musetti had two cars to similar spec: one that may be linked to the Matthews 723 and/or 73B; one that we haven't yet been able to trace. One went to Howard Wood in New Zealand and went to Bill Wood in Yorkshire.

Drifty

Is John Beattie the engine guy?

Allen

[driftwood]

yes beattie is engine guy i told u that 2 weeks ago please keep up with the plot- thought u had gone on yr holidays
if yr saying B42 was the Ago f2 car i think thats in usa ex fitsimmons car or did he run 2 cars
the car was plated as B48 not 42 just ran in 42 spec again has 1 of us lost the plot here?

[driftwood]

The March '742' is a mystery much discussed on the March 722 to 772 thread. Musetti had two cars to similar spec: one that may be linked to the Matthews 723 and/or 73B; one that we haven't yet been able to trace. One went to Howard Wood in New Zealand and went to Bill Wood in Yorkshire
does this make 4 cars then when yr talking about 2 similar cars or am i missing somink here ( wrong thread i know but 1 car in 742 bmw spec was in OPz came to uk in 96 ish from bmw dealer-Miller time here)

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by driftwood

yes beattie is engine guy i told u that 2 weeks ago please keep up with the plot- thought u had gone on yr holidays

As I'm way behind the plot, what else did you tell me about this one? Do we know where the March went after Beattie? Do we know where it is today?

Originally Posted by driftwood

does this make 4 cars then when yr talking about 2 similar cars or am i missing somink here ( wrong thread i know but 1 car in 742 bmw spec was in OPz came to uk in 96 ish from bmw dealer-Miller time here)

No, just the two. One that we've discussed with Bryan (can't remember where it is today) and the one that went Musetti-Bill Wood-Beattie and would be very good to trace so we can find out what tub is in it.

Allen (on hols but with nothing else to do until after lunch)

[allenbrown]

oops

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by driftwood

1 Did you have chevron b45 car? I believe ony 1 survives of the the 4 built now in usa
No-I had b48 chassis with plate was updated from b42 then back dated to a b42 spec with 48 tag -ken brill raced aurora as a b42.Later I sold it to stuart ridge to david seton in scotland then to another sprinter hillclimb man carl amos lost track here where the car wentI ran it as "B45" in atlantic spec. Terry Fisher had it in 1981 from Brill

This matches what Adam had told us some time ago about the chassis plate on Ray's car:

Originally Posted by allenbrown

I'm almost afraid to add to this dauntingly complex thread but Adam Ferrington provided me with these notes from his hill climb records:

1982 - Ray Rowan - Chevron B48-79-04 (ex Terry Fisher)

1987 - Stuart Ridge - Chevron B48-79-04 (ex Fisher, Rowan)

So it was a B42 but with a B48 plate. So why was the plate from B48-79-04 being used?

Allen

[driftwood]

Ray said car was B48 not 42 car it was an updated 42 chassis made into 48 car hence plate is B48 car did get tunred back to 42 spec easy t do remove sid epods just like making march 742 into 732 or 772P etc

i believe the 42 48 tub is same chevron book said southgate basically made wing/GE car from B42 as the B48

I dont know Beattie to speak to im sure someone does so they can call him ask the impertinant questions on march

[Dan Rear]

Been on hols, so only just picked this up!

I read into Drifty's notes/comments from Ray R, that the car he called a 'B42' was in fact the 'missing' ex RAM/Harksound B48 from 1979. The car entered very occasionally that year for de Dryver and Luyendijk in F2, and which then disappeared as an F2 car. The fact Ray said it was like new, may confirm this history, only raced twice, I think, in 79. We tentatively listed it on page 1 of this thread as no. 6.

It also begs the question was it the same tub as RAM used in 79 in Aurora F2 for Regout/Garon, ie B42-9, the ex ICI 78 car. If it was a wholly different one, I wonder why they didn't use the newer car, the B48, in Aurora, rather than the older B42? One for John MacD maybe !

[allenbrown]

But Ray also said he got it from Terry Fisher who had got it from Brill. He said it was a B42 (which was right for the Brill/Fisher car) but updated to B48 and with a B48 plate (which agrees with Adam's observation of the plate as B48-04).

The "almost new" B48 he had was a separate car wasn't it? That's how drfity has listed it. It went to Galbraith where Adam observed the plate as B48-10. Ray said he bought it in 1980 and sold it in 1980 or 1981 so that's before he started running the B42/48.

Allen

Allen

[driftwood]

yes allen yr right the new "unused " b48 was the Harksound car that later went to Scotland for Norrie to run

the fisher brill b42 cum b48 plated car car was the aurora car and later turne dback into b42 spec WITH b48 tag
ray ran it as a B45 just to confuse the enemy !
so Dan did u have too much sun or was it to much beer on that club 18-65 holiday you went on?

[Dan Rear]

Sorry chaps, my mistake entirely. Ray had both a B42 (ex Ago/Brill/Fisher) AND the ex-RAM B48 I assume. But why did Ray get the car, the B48, from Creighton Brown/Project 4. Was there a connection between that team and RAM whop ran it in 79?

[Steve Wilkinson]

So let me ask a simple question!

What would be the correct way of listing the Ray Rowan B45?

a) B45-78-04
b) B42/45-78-04
c) B42/48-78-04
d) B48/42-78-04
e) B45/42-78-04
f) B45/48-78-04

or what?

[allenbrown]

g) None of the above.

It's not a B45 and was never B45-78-04. That number was applied speculatively on the B45 thread and we now know it's wrong. Nor was it B48-79-04 as that plate doesn't belong on the car and its real identity is B42-78-14, albeit well modified.

I plan to call it B42/B48 [B42-78-14] as it was B42-78-14 updated to B48 spec. I'm then going to use the footnote facility on OldRacingCars.com to add the other important information that it was entered and typically reported as a B45 and that it carried a plate saying B48-79-04.

[Dan Rear]

Beat me to it Allen! Another related issue, what happened to the real,, B48-79-04, the Trivellato/Stohr car? Did this come out occasionally in 1980, Daniele Tesini rings bells...

[driftwood]

Dan u brought the RAM thing into the thread !"!
I reported on what the man told me directly
That was he took the car from C Brown and the car was a P4 car but not entered by P4 tean and was used once or twice
He also mentioned the harksound part

Stve e the car was NOT a b45 it was RR enetering it as that cos he had no idea what to call the car i think it had 1600 motor and b424548 is same car parts
the car was a B48 plated car that was an updated 42 car by chevron who fitted the 48 tag along with the 48 parts
yes car went back to 42 spec and RR ran as b45 in its entry but it wasnt a 45 car
anyone still confused?

[driftwood]

i added my notes as AB was tip tapping as well so i missed his comments and yr subsequent comment
what do u mean real b48-79-04 car??
the RR car was that car chevron would not have put 2 cars out with same tag
my understanding is the car was b42 upgraded to 48 spec AND tag was applied
the other B48 car that was the hardly used car he sold later to Norrie was another plate
or have i lost the plot here and need to refer back to the man hmself to ask for plate info

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

g) None of the above.

It's not a B45 and was never B45-78-04. That number was applied speculatively on the B45 thread and we now know it's wrong. Nor was it B48-79-04 as that plate doesn't belong on the car and its real identity is B42-78-14, albeit well modified.

I plan to call it B42/B48 [B42-78-14] as it was B42-78-14 updated to B48 spec. I'm then going to use the footnote facility on OldRacingCars.com to add the other important information that it was entered and typically reported as a B45 and that it carried a plate saying B48-79-04.

Thanks Allen. I will follow your example above.

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by driftwood

i added my notes as AB was tip tapping as well so i missed his comments and yr subsequent comment
what do u mean real b48-79-04 car??
the RR car was that car chevron would not have put 2 cars out with same tag
my understanding is the car was b42 upgraded to 48 spec AND tag was applied
the other B48 car that was the hardly used car he sold later to Norrie was another plate
or have i lost the plot here and need to refer back to the man hmself to ask for plate info

No, you haven't lost the plot. Not quite, anyway.

Dan's suffering from ferry lag but his question about what became of the "real" B48-79-04 depends on F1R being right that 04 was the Trivellato/Stohr car. I don't think we have any other evidence that it was 04 so maybe the 04 plate was unused in 1979 for some reason. As we are now pretty confident that the RAM car was 10, not 06, it's possible the eight B48s went from 01 to 10 with two numbers being unused. Anything's possible.

[Dan Rear]

Here's an idea thats just come to me.

That year, 1979, when Project 4/ICI ran the semi-works 792s, Stephen South was the second driver. I recall now that he'd been rumoured to be running a 'works blessed' B48, prior to his getting the ICI drive only just before the 1st race that year at S'stone.

I wonder whether he'd bought the B48, using the proceeds of his 782 sold to Adrian R, and then gifted the car to Project 4 as payment for his drive that year. That would explain why the car was hardly used, and why Ray R bought it from Project 4. So if this is correct, the car may have been no. 4, which means the RAM/Harksound/de Dryver car may well have been no.10. Which only leaves 1 B48, no.9, not accounted for.

Lots of ifs there I realise !!!

[driftwood]

1 B48 for sale i asked the owner for info as i have some fotos

Yes, still have the B48 it is chassis no.B48 04
It was the trivellato car, originally driven in B42 form by Agostini (I have met him and he told me about it). Then modified at the factory to a B48.

this car came from Mr Slinn he got it from Bodini in italy What number did Ago have on B42 as i thought that car is now in usa after steve fitsimmons had it in uk back in 95-00
My info came from Tim Colman of the Chevron register, not anybody I bought it from. B42 chassis no. B42 78 14, again info from the register

I believe these B42 cars where returned to factory to be updated to B48 as oppossed to buying new cars as the tub engine gearbox uprights etc where all the same so why spend more ££ buying a new car with the same parts on it-- what needs to be established is a list of B42 cars with cross reference to B48 chassis tags & vice versa

[James Murray]

There's a B48 updated from B42 ex Agostini for sale in this weeks autosport which must be (famous last words) the above mentioned car.

Must admit having read this thread I've lost the plot. My understanding was B42-78-14 was the Trivellato Agostini car, but are we now saying this car was updated and given a B48 identity B48-79-04. If so why do we have B42-78-14 in the USA with chassis plate and B48-79-04 (apparently) for sale in Autosport with chassis plate.

[driftwood]

yes the car is the car i mentioned updated etc
and i know lee chapman ha sthe Voxson car
that car was the fitzsimmons b42 car he race din 98 -2000 in DBT
i was aware of these quirks but i resisted in making the comment as u have done for fear of creating confusion!
be interesting to hear what others have to say or Chevron records reveal
i have my own theory that i cant print here!!!