Flash photography and other trackside distractions

[Pistonbroke]

I'd be very interested to hear views from any competitors as to whether they really are distracted by photo flashes, especially if the 'offending' spectator is on a bank above track level.

No axe to grind - I'm a marshal not a speccy - it's just that as I've never competed I'd like to hear from those who have/do rather than just accepting the 'received wisdom'.

[DaveK]

I've never noticed it before , but then may nobody has bothered taking any pics of me !!

[rhodopsin]

Hi Roger

As you know I do a bit of photography from time to time and like you I have never competed in Hill Climbing. There were a lot of flashes going off up the hill at Shelsley this weekend and nearly all from compact digital cameras. I would imagine at 150mph, if seen, it could be quite distracting. I personally wouldn’t use a flash as the subject is to far away for it to have any effect, nor would I condone its use by others during a Hill Climb. But I do use a flash on cycling events during which I'm considerable closer to the competitors than on the hill climbs. The flashes I use are rather powerful but the amount of light off them is strictly controlled by me and not the camera. The speeds of the cycling events are considerable slower than that of Motor Sport, but I thought because of my proximity to the Riders it would cause problems. I have asked various Riders including World and Olympic Champions if it is a problem and most of them have stated that they don't even notice it.

Richard

http://rhodopsin.co.uk/Other%20Sport...-10-07_573.jpg


ps note the flash going off here

[ROGER JORDAN]

Hi All, I have been a competitor for many years on both road rallies (early seventies when they were thinly disguised road races!) and from 1975 to 1994 on hillclimbs and can honestly say I have never been put off or for that matter ever remember really seeing a flash, In my opinion if you are put off by a flash then you are not concentrating on the job in hand, namely that bit of tarmac right in front of your car, some of the photographers on road rallies used to put up a warning sign but when really trying you don`t have time to even notice it so a tiny flash in daylight under trees is nothing.
That said I would never use a flash and there were a lot going off in the esses at Shelsley on Sunday I assume from the compact gameras.
Now, as for wearing something red at the side of the track that is an absolute no no as far as I`m concerned because for a driver anything red at the side of the hill definitely does register even if it`s just in the peripheral vision especially if it moves.
Hope I havent upset anyone, many thanks to everyone at Shelsley for a fantastic day, judging from what I saw of the marshalling if you have to have an accident Shelsley is a damn good place to have it, very proffesional, hope John Chalmers is ok. Regards Roger.

[Judd]

It truly depends where they are - if its alongside me or up a bank above my eyeline, then I'll be aware of it but its not a problem. But if it is dead head, or in the area where I have focused then I find it momentarily distracting - low down spectators at Bottom Ess and Pardon are examples of where flashes can be directly in one's eyeline.

By far the most distracting for me in the past few years was a small cloud of smoke from a cigar! The spectator was leaning against the fence on the inside of Orchard and the smoke was just sitting in the air right where I was looking for the apex! I shouldn't have let it distract me, but it totally threw me!

Oliver

[rescue dude]

Originally Posted by ROGER JORDAN

judging from what I saw of the marshalling if you have to have an accident Shelsley is a damn good place to have it, very proffesional, Regards Roger.

Thank you for the high praise.

I think you will find that most of the marshals that were at Shelsley do all the other Midland hills plus many others nationwide, so you will find yourself in safe hands wherever you come to grief.

[Woolley]

It's a discussion I've had with a number of competitors in a variety of classes since it gets mentioned over the commentary on occasions and I was anxious to know whether it was something that we should try to control. The response from all of them was 'Is there any flash photography?' The only occasion where it was mentioned was a singed on photographer who stood head on at Top Ess with a professional flash. We already had him moved to a safer place and asked him to refrain before the complaint arrived from the competitor. So my impression is that it can safely be ignored. I should, like PistonBroke, welcome any comments that confirm or contradict this opinion.

Wearing of red as mentioned above is something that we do watch out for, although I've always found it interesting that the doctors' overalls are bright red. Never seems to have caused a problem, and nor did Matt's dark red coat on Sunday, although he was probably not very visible where he positions himself.

I was very proud of the marshals, rescue crew and Gin on the recovery truck, who's efforts at John's sizeable accident were exemplary as always. It was nice to receive a round of applause from the crowd when the car was righted. John seemed perfectly OK, despite his impersonation of a St Bernard coming through the cat flap, and we were all much relieved to see him walk to the ambulance and wave to the crowd.

That's an amazing photograph, Rhodopsin. The flash is of course fine in that instance as the photographer is behind the driver. It's still quite staggering that both cameras fired in that precise fraction of a second. You're probably both brilliant photographers who judged the right moment to perfection. Or else you both missed the best shot by the same amount! (I'll go for the former having seen the results of both of you).

[blackx]

Originally Posted by Woolley

Wearing of red as mentioned above is something that we do watch out for, although I've always found it interesting that the doctors' overalls are bright red. Never seems to have caused a problem, and nor did Matt's dark red coat on Sunday, although he was probably not very visible where he positions himself.

Both the Docs overalls and Matts red coat caused some frantic second glances from Ess Approach over the weekend though

[RED21]

Like DaveK and others I have never really noticed any flashes from cameras whilst actually driving, but I have only registered a flash or two when waiting on the start line but it never distracted me though.
The type of flash photography that worries me are the ones that sit at side of the road in brightly coloured boxes, as they don't flash as I go past.
The only bits of red I take notice of are flags and warning lights.

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by blackx

Both the Docs overalls and Matts red coat caused some frantic second glances from Ess Approach over the weekend though

While it's a separate topic (unless we consider the thread as 'trackside distractions') it's a very valid point and we were discussing that on Sunday. It's not really much different from someone sitting in the spectator banking above the post in red, but it still means we need to think carefully about signalling to the next marshals' post so that there can be no confusion. It's already in my notes for next year as 'something which needs attention'. There's a problem with signalling from finish to Top Ess too which is on the same list.

[blackx]

Originally Posted by Woolley

There's a problem with signalling from finish to Top Ess too which is on the same list.

Prescott use a claxon between semi-in and semi-out.
Could something similar be rigged up at SW or a button to push which lights a light or rings a bell on the hut at Top Ess

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by blackx

Prescott use a claxon between semi-in and semi-out.
Could something similar be rigged up at SW or a button to push which lights a light or rings a bell on the hut at Top Ess

Ding Dong!

What ever you do please do not install one of these blithering "chirping budgie" alarms like they have at Harewood - they are MOST annoying!!!

[blackx]

Originally Posted by Steve Wilkinson

Ding Dong!

What ever you do please do not install one of these blithering "chirping budgie" alarms like they have at Harewood - they are MOST annoying!!!

*Begs Woolley to install one of those chirping budgie alarms*

[Woolley]

Crazy Frog was my suggestion...

However, we're wandering off the point.

[jonners]

Is it possible that flashes aren't much of a problem because they're banned.....??

[Aysedasi]

Are they?

[blackx]

Originally Posted by jonners

Is it possible that flashes aren't much of a problem because they're banned.....??

I've never been to a hillclimb where flashes are banned and I've been to a few..

[Woolley]

News to me, too, and a little difficult to enforce. We have enough trouble keeping dogs out.

[jonners]

oops - looks like I've made a wrong assumption. I've seen notices in programmes and have heard announcements over the pa at Prescott - just assumed it was universal.

in my view it should be - flashes tend to trigger migraines for me and I do find them distracting - they have a blinding effect on me that seems to be worse than for everybody else - so i get quite irate when people just let them off with out notice...

against all of that...i don't recall any problems whilst competing

[Fireblade]

The general rule at SW is no flash. As rhodopsin says there is no real reason for it anyway.
The problem mainly comes from compact digi cameras and as HR says - If you don't know how to use it put it back in your pocket.

Originally Posted by blackx

Prescott use a claxon between semi-in and semi-out.
Could something similar be rigged up at SW or a button to push which lights a light or rings a bell on the hut at Top Ess

You trying to add to the off-season maintenance list?
One way would be to have the flag at Finish tigger a micro switch when it is in its holder thereby switching a red LED cluster affixed to the side of Top Ess hut out of drivers site line.
Woolley and I did discuss it last year whilst bouncing ideas around. I will let him discuss through proper channels and arrive at a solution.

One snag is that we have no spare cabling in ducts between the 2 points at present.

[blackx]

Originally Posted by Fireblade

You trying to add to the off-season maintenance list?
One way would be to have the flag at Finish tigger a micro switch when it is in its holder thereby switching a red LED cluster affixed to the side of Top Ess hut out of drivers site line.
Woolley and I did discuss it last year whilst bouncing ideas around. I will let him discuss through proper channels and arrive at a solution.

One snag is that we have no spare cabling in ducts between the 2 points at present.

I know how you pine for little jobs to do around the place during the dark,cold winter days


Having something that triggers once the flag is slotted in the holder is a good idea but it may be a bit slow as once the flag is in the holder it is usually a few seconds after the initial waving of the flag has occured ...

[Woolley]

But very helpful if you're several hundred yards away trying to tell if it's still out.

Consider it raised, although I do understand the problems of getting it connected up.

[rescue dude]

Wouldn't it be easier just to connect up a flashing red light at finish and point this towards Top Ess?

[rhodopsin]

Ay up Wooley - I think this thread now has two or three different topics and as you may have noticed from time to time - I'm completely lost

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by rhodopsin

Ay up Wooley - I think this thread now has two or three different topics and as you may have noticed from time to time - I'm completely lost

If you just stopped flashing you may be able to keep up!