Van Diemen build from scratch - Help Wanted

[Nickb20]

Hi all
Having looked at Formula Ford for some time, me and a friend are considering building a Van Diemen from the bare chassis up. I can get by with the mechanics but relying mostly on my mate as he used to work for Mercedes, amongst others. The problem is that we have never built a race car or any sort of car from scratch and I prefer to use guides etc..
Does anyone have any experiences they could share or point me in the right direction to get more information.

[08u05]

I imagine Lindsay Allen at Van Diemen may well be able to help as I believe they keep records guides and manuals from all the cars they have built.

John Loebell of Medina Sport may also be able to help you.

[flatbroke]

SEE PM

[GlenF]

I have built cars before and would sujjest perhaps purchasing a car with all the bits in need of a rebuild rather than starting with a bare chassis. In the long run its far cheaper. Rose joints alone can cost 000's.

[driftwood]

GlenF you beat me to pointing out the same point!!
i even had a car in bits and that took ages cost more £ than a turn key racer
only difference wa si didnt have the fullcash amount in my hand but the end result was the same next time i will save the cash and buy complete running car

[JNWRF01]

Nick - I have just built a brand new Van Diemen F4 car from scratch - if you are thnking of doing the same - don't!

For a start you will struggle to get supply for most of the parts (try and get a tank made in a hurry, or a steering rack etc etc) - the cost is prob 30% more than what Medina or Lindsay will quote you for a new car. If you really want to feel you have built it - ask Lindsay if he can knock you a bit off to have to car unduilt - check yourself into a B&B for a few weeks and off you go.

Rebuild an old car / buy new direct from VD/Medina - don;t do your own thing.

[driftwood]

what car do you want to build up from a chassis? 98 zetec thing? well these can be bought for 3-5k with motor so why start with 500 quid chassis?

[JohnMiller]

I guess you'd probably have a different opinion if it was your £500 bare chassis though!

[chris bailey]

Originally Posted by JohnMiller

I guess you'd probably have a different opinion if it was your £500 bare chassis though!

No you wouldn't! Starting with a bare chassis and no knowledge is a recipe for never-ending frustration. For a start, you don't know what you don't have (if you see what I mean). Even when you work out what you need (if you ever do), it'll take several lifetimes to track down all the bits. Many, many years ago, when I was working for Royale, a hapless gentleman tried to build an RP21 Formula Ford in this way, buying new bits at spares prices!!!! Even with the help of a parts list and advice from the factory, I don't think he ever completed the car. It was, by some considerable margin, the most expensive Formula Ford ever (not) built at that time!

Buy something complete, as others are suggesting, even if you have to borrow a bit of cash to do this. You'll learn most of what you need to know from dismantling the car, refurbishing it, and putting it back together.

Keep your bare chassis as a spare. You might need it one day.....

[Dermot Healy]

Originally Posted by driftwood

what car do you want to build up from a chassis? 98 zetec thing? well these can be bought for 3-5k with motor so why start with 500 quid chassis?

£500 for a VD98Z chassis?.......why....i'm sure there was a charming guy somewhere very recently advertising one for a lot less than that... ....£200 if i remember right........just can't quite remember his name!

Not that i'd disagree for one moment with the very wise advice given already.......

[JohnMiller]

Originally Posted by chris bailey

No you wouldn't!

Thanks all the same, but i'll stick to my opinion that driftwood might feel differently if it was his chassis for sale.

[driftwood]

100 200 or 500 who cares the nice man is not the nice im still waiting for him to buy me beer n curry!
its regardless what the chassis cost the rest wil cost heaps more than a complete car even if it it looks like it sat at the bottom of the sea for 2 weeks!
then add in labour cost new bearings nuts bolts etc etc

i have chassis here you can buy John i dont bother advertising them cos i have already worked out they are not cost effective for a man to buy and build
and are really only of use to a car owner when he shunts bends chassis

[chris bailey]

i have chassis here you can buy John i dont bother advertising them cos i have already worked out they are not cost effective for a man to buy and build
and are really only of use to a car owner when he shunts bends chassis[/QUOTE]

Exactly!

[JohnMiller]

Originally Posted by chris bailey

Exactly!

Don't think I am disagreeing with you about the cons of buying a bare chassis to build up; I just need to wind up driftwood as it is so rewarding.

[driftwood]

John its time for you to get a new girlfriend !!
hows that dallara tub going you bought of me last year?
send me foto of it now

[JohnMiller]

Originally Posted by driftwood

John its time for you to get a new girlfriend !!
hows that dallara tub going you bought of me last year?
send me foto of it now

On email now. You'd be surprised what realism the thick end of sixty grand can acheive.

Not uninterested in the Nippon tub you've got.

[Nickb20]

Well thanks for the replies, pretty much decided to give up on that idea, sounds like a lot of work and time not to mention money.
Glad I posted on here, was thinking of just going for it but from everyones advice happy that I didn't. Maybe getting a cheap fully built car and working on that will be a better way to go.
Does anyone know where to get technical type books for formula ford, seen a few on some sights but they are in America and postage puts the price up by quite a bit.
Thanks again for the advice everyone.

[driftwood]

do you mean books like engineer to win design build race to win series by carrol smith?
u can get them here £20 ish each

re a car whats your budget for a car?
I have Mygale 99 zetec for sale clean tidy car could easily drive it tomorrow
£6k digital dash etc
if you want a car to restore only certain cars worth doing as again cost of buying scruffy tired car and rebuilding powder coating nickling etc is back to the cost if not more of buying turn key car

do you want to race the car when finished?

[GlenF]

Why not go along to a circuit (The season has almost started) and have a look around the paddock.
Ask people who are actualy racing their opinion.
There are alot of cars out there (Different manufactures etc) Different sizes , make sure you can fit to start with (Seperate thread)
Where are you in the country?

[Nickb20]

Well the intention was to race in ff1600 this season however raising the budget for the start of the season is not looking promising, we may have to look at getting a car initially then working on it and testing whenever we can, with a view to racing next season.
We are down in Kent about 30 minutes from brands so will get up there for the COB meetings to have a look round if we cant get the budget together.
Driftwood - your Mygale is the sort of thing I would be interested in, any chance you could pm me some more details and pics if u have them, oh and I have found loads of books now on amazon, any you could particularly recommend.

[Thundersports]

driftwood what have you got between 3-5k rollers or runners?

[driftwood]

GlenF so your saying that half the people who have posted here do not actually race cars??!!!!

Nick will PM you i alsohave car for race hire

Thundersports what the hell do you want to know what cars i have!?
keep your nose buried deep in autosport and wear the bobble hat at paddock grandstand
the last thing i nee dis you on the race track!!

[Thundersports]

Originally Posted by driftwood

GlenF so your saying that half the people who have posted here do not actually race cars??!!!!

Nick will PM you i alsohave car for race hire

Thundersports what the hell do you want to know what cars i have!?
keep your nose buried deep in autosport and wear the bobble hat at paddock grandstand
the last thing i nee dis you on the race track!!

I'd give you a head start! I will have to check out your website!

[Mak]

Driftwood, I thought he wanted a ff1600 not Zetec? If he has a year to get sorted should buy a cheap run down car and spend the year stripping it down, cleaning it up and rebuilding it. Best way to learn and won't need an instruction book. Plenty of people to give advice, and after all ff aint rocket science. In the mean time he could hire a car from someone like yourself to take him through that initial steep learning period.

[driftwood]

yes i agree the race hire will be better way to dip toe in water its 5-600 quid to test and not 5-7k to buy a car
also he needs to buy tools kit jacks trailer to run his car and why buy it all to find its not for you!

mygale zetec can convert to kent 1600 in a few days
iof he buys a 3k tired knackerd car it wil be $$ $$$$ drippiong out each week gettingpwder coat nikcling weld repairs buy bearings paint body buy new part here n there and of cours e time to do the work abd he will end up with the car rebuilt to race all year at more than a running car will cost
THAT is the danger but ist fine when yr long in the tooth of motorsport you accept teh 10k car rebuild cost on a car that u could abought for 8k elsewhere race ready but a newbie will have shot his load in the run up of doing the car and either bail out at a loss or lock car away for 2 years to recover from the stress and expense

a classic case is the Kit car world
how many GT40 AC cobra replicas are sold unfinished for less than the car and parts have cost!