Was it right to ban the factory Nissan, BMW, Toyota (Audi, Volvo) teams from ATCC?

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by one five five

Drawing a hell of a long bow to try and make a point.

BMW pulled out of turbo F1 after 1986, well before turbo engines were banned (though teams did run those engines in the two following years without BMW investment). It had nothing to do with the impending 3.5ltr rules for 1989.

They didn’t return until fourteen years later in 2000, hardly “a few short years later”

Not a long bow at all - a poster said that BMW not having a car for the new ATCC rules back in the early 90s would result in it not wanting to dive into Gen3 rules now. That is a gap of 30 years, hence the "few short years" reference.

Oh and BMW works engines were still used in the Brabhams until the end of 1988, with BMW's return with Williams announced in 1998.

[Tourer]

Whoops - typo (thick fingers) that should read "until the end of 1987" I hate it when that happens!

[cavvy]

Originally Posted by one five five

The rules written made it virtually impossible for an importer not selling a V8 model to enter. Coupled with the attitude that the other manufacturers weren’t wanted.

Nissan had backed Aussie touring car racing unbroken since 1981, BMW for a similar period bar 89 and 90. The way they were made to feel unwanted was disgraceful.

The way BMW were kept around for 1993 to just make up the numbers was appalling too, especially as they provided more factory support to the 1993 season than Ford or Holden!

The sport needs the manufacturers.
Currently we have Ford.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by one five five

If the international 2.5ltr formula happened, then there would have been E36 BMWs for 1993.

As it was, after the 2.5ltr international formula failed to materialise & CAMS gave N/A Group A cars a reprieve for 1993, the Gardner/Longhurst team wanted to run the E36 bodyshell with E30 M3 running gear in 1993 against the V8s, they even built such a car and ran it for Paul Morris at the 1992 AGP support race…..but other teams moaned that it wasn’t a properly homologated car and CAMS didn’t let them run it in 1993, hence they ran the E30 cars again

Parity between a 5L V8 and 2L cars was certainly achievable, and could have produced great David v Goliath racing.

An international 2.5L series was never gonna happen at that point in time. Total pipe dream from someone.

BMW would have never spent a fortune trying to run a cobbled up e36 with e30 running gear and fit it in with the V8s. And as history shows they didn't.

Could parity have been achieved with 5L and 2L cars, sure, but then they would not be V8 SUPERCARS as they would be famously known within a few years. Nor as the grids grew would there have been room for the 2 Liters. As I recall in 94 there were a few supertourers that ran at the back of the field.

Ultimately as history shows, V8 Supercars was a huge success.

[one five five]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

An international 2.5L series was never gonna happen at that point in time. Total pipe dream from someone.

That was the FIA’s plan throughout 1990 and 1991, even the early part of 1992, the 2.5ltr formula was formulated to become the official FIA touring car set of rules after PROCAR had failed to materialise as the Group A replacement.

All discussions throughout 1990 and 1991 about new ATCC rules mentioned V8 Falcons and Commodores being paritied against the international rules.

Ultimately more manufacturers wanted to do 2L racing than 2.5 and hence the formula as envisaged never happened, and the ATCC brought in 2L rules instead

Originally Posted by mountainstar

BMW would have never spent a fortune trying to run a cobbled up e36 with e30 running gear and fit it in with the V8s. And as history shows they didn't.

I don’t think you understand. BMW literally wanted to put E30 running gear in an E36 for 1993 once the rules were relaxed, they literally imported an E36 shell and raced it with E30 running gear in the AGP support races to demo the concept.

CAMS said no, likely at the behest of Ford and Holden.

It’s a credit to BMW they still turned up for 1993 after that.