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Old 17 Jan 2008, 20:59 (Ref:2108304)   #16
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mountainstar should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridmountainstar should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridmountainstar should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by luke
Autoracing1 has zero credibility in terms of substance of rumors found elsewhere..

As for most of the grid being funded, any links or evidence to each driver that was funded last year in CC by KK?
Yes now we're quoting Mark C as the gospel. Mark C gleans most of his rumors off of forums.
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Old 17 Jan 2008, 22:29 (Ref:2108366)   #17
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But MarkC has over the years been a huge cheerleader for ChampCar - often exaggerating or inventing pro ChampCar stories.

For him to carry this story, things must be bad.
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Old 18 Jan 2008, 18:25 (Ref:2108940)   #18
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indycool should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridindycool should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
TSO just posted what appears to be a news release saying that Matos has a deal for a ride with Andretti Green in IPS for one of a two-car effort with Gary Peterson's team to be run out of the AGR shops. Release has quoted from Matos. Done deal. Guess the $2 million wasn't worth much to anyone in CC.
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Old 18 Jan 2008, 18:47 (Ref:2108952)   #19
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luke should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridluke should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex K
Get back to earth luke.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stradlin21
second that

not getting at you luke but take the blinkers off mate
LOL ?

How am I out of this world or wearing blinkers? For such a big aligation made that most of the grid is run by KK surely it is only right to back it up with links proving this? Therefore surely you are the ones wearing the blinkers or out of this world if you are going to make big aligations with no evidence.
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Old 18 Jan 2008, 19:20 (Ref:2108974)   #20
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indycool should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridindycool should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Luke, who do you think is funding it? Do you honestly think that all the teams are footing their own freight? Where are they getting it? Sponsorship and prize money are next-to-nothing. I realize you're a bit removed geographically on how this is working over here but Pook blew $90 million in the final year of CART to keep the series going, a lot of it on team subsidies that were well-stated in CART's public documents. These teams' situations are no better now than they were then. If KK and GF are coming up with free engines and tires as Mark C. said (who knows?), then they OWN Cosworth and they PAID or TRADED a deal with Bridgestone to be able to do it.

Indeed, PKV was in such good financial shape that it took Tristan Gommendy, a pay driver, last year. Forsythe refused initially last season to run a second car unless it was "paid for" and later relented. Petit bought and closed RuSport and joined Forsythe. Gentilozzi is off to the side waiting for money to show up. And these guys OWN the series.

Judging by what's happened lately, it appears that KK is backing away (or meditating with the penguins again) because he hasn't said a word since before the JDSU trial. Forsythe and KK were known to disagree on things and it appears Forsythe is taking more command of this now and KK less command of it. The Cotman resignation points to that. Forsythe was known to favor the ex-SCCA mafia in the office. But time will tell.
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Old 18 Jan 2008, 20:15 (Ref:2109007)   #21
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The Milwaukee Journal writer brought up another point in this story....what happens to Pagenaud without $ help?

http://blogs.jsonline.com/racing/default.aspx
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Old 18 Jan 2008, 21:37 (Ref:2109054)   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luke
LOL ?

How am I out of this world or wearing blinkers? For such a big aligation made that most of the grid is run by KK surely it is only right to back it up with links proving this? Therefore surely you are the ones wearing the blinkers or out of this world if you are going to make big aligations with no evidence.

perhaps you better read some more of this thread mate.....

evidence? I switched on the tv and watched a race mate
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Old 18 Jan 2008, 21:39 (Ref:2109056)   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indycool
The Milwaukee Journal writer brought up another point in this story....what happens to Pagenaud without $ help?

http://blogs.jsonline.com/racing/default.aspx

interesting stuff, nice post

it really does make me laugh that these guys have all had hissy fits about Honda apparently "demanding" that AGR employ Hideki Mutoh (links)

yet on a weekly basis we see stuff like the above link

glass houses do you think?
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Old 18 Jan 2008, 21:42 (Ref:2109062)   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indycool
Luke, who do you think is funding it? Do you honestly think that all the teams are footing their own freight? Where are they getting it? Sponsorship and prize money are next-to-nothing. I realize you're a bit removed geographically on how this is working over here but Pook blew $90 million in the final year of CART to keep the series going, a lot of it on team subsidies that were well-stated in CART's public documents. These teams' situations are no better now than they were then. If KK and GF are coming up with free engines and tires as Mark C. said (who knows?), then they OWN Cosworth and they PAID or TRADED a deal with Bridgestone to be able to do it.

Indeed, PKV was in such good financial shape that it took Tristan Gommendy, a pay driver, last year. Forsythe refused initially last season to run a second car unless it was "paid for" and later relented. Petit bought and closed RuSport and joined Forsythe. Gentilozzi is off to the side waiting for money to show up. And these guys OWN the series.

Judging by what's happened lately, it appears that KK is backing away (or meditating with the penguins again) because he hasn't said a word since before the JDSU trial. Forsythe and KK were known to disagree on things and it appears Forsythe is taking more command of this now and KK less command of it. The Cotman resignation points to that. Forsythe was known to favor the ex-SCCA mafia in the office. But time will tell.

.............indeed, time will tell

Champ Car teams get massive subsidies as was posted and linked in the IRL section somewhere the other day
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Old 18 Jan 2008, 21:51 (Ref:2109073)   #25
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mountainstar should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridmountainstar should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridmountainstar should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by stradlin21
.............indeed, time will tell

Champ Car teams get massive subsidies as was posted and linked in the IRL section somewhere the other day
Really says who? MarK C? You?
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Old 18 Jan 2008, 21:53 (Ref:2109076)   #26
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OK I must add my tidbit. I don't believe you have must push or credibility in your statement as must of the CC naysayers here don't like Mark C and find AR1 to be not credible. So now the fact finding make AR1 more credible? I just don't buy it.
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Old 18 Jan 2008, 21:56 (Ref:2109080)   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paul-collins
According to CC's prime rumour-monger (AR1), not so much:
Originally Posted by Jimmy Magnusson
The $2 million isn't enough (it seems) to buy a CC ride, so naturally the driver has to bring additional funds. CC has stopped subsidizing rides.

According to CC's prime rumour-monger (AR1), not so much:

Quote:
Our sources in the Atlantic series are saying that the rumors about Matos going to Andretti Green Racing (AGR) in the IRL's IPS series are correct. Apparently the situation inside Champ Car is such that many of the teams are getting multi-million dollar subsidies in the form of free tires and engine leases from Champ Car. But if they take Matos with his $2 million, they do not get these subsidies... thus, taking less cash from a paying driver like Dan Clarke, added to their subsidies, results in an overall higher dollar figure.

Champ Car wants Matos to drive for Rocketsports, which is a back-of-the-field team, and this one-year deal includes no salary, no travel expenses and all prize money goes to the team. On the other hand, AGR is offering him a 3-year deal, decent salary, test days in the IRL car and the chance to move up in a commercially-viable team that operates in both the IRL and ALMS. You really can't blame Raphael.




interesting stuff mountain
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Old 18 Jan 2008, 21:57 (Ref:2109081)   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coyote9999
OK I must add my tidbit. I don't believe you have must push or credibility in your statement as must of the CC naysayers here don't like Mark C and find AR1 to be not credible. So now the fact finding make AR1 more credible? I just don't buy it.
i don't understand a word of that
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Old 18 Jan 2008, 21:58 (Ref:2109083)   #29
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mountainstar should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridmountainstar should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridmountainstar should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by stradlin21
interesting stuff, nice post

it really does make me laugh that these guys have all had hissy fits about Honda apparently "demanding" that AGR employ Hideki Mutoh (links)

yet on a weekly basis we see stuff like the above link

glass houses do you think?
Honda probably didn't demand anything but if AGR wanted honda's money they would take Mutoh and they did.
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Old 18 Jan 2008, 22:10 (Ref:2109086)   #30
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mountainstar should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridmountainstar should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridmountainstar should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by indycool
Luke, who do you think is funding it? Do you honestly think that all the teams are footing their own freight? Where are they getting it? Sponsorship and prize money are next-to-nothing. I realize you're a bit removed geographically on how this is working over here but Pook blew $90 million in the final year of CART to keep the series going, a lot of it on team subsidies that were well-stated in CART's public documents. These teams' situations are no better now than they were then. If KK and GF are coming up with free engines and tires as Mark C. said (who knows?), then they OWN Cosworth and they PAID or TRADED a deal with Bridgestone to be able to do it.

Indeed, PKV was in such good financial shape that it took Tristan Gommendy, a pay driver, last year. Forsythe refused initially last season to run a second car unless it was "paid for" and later relented. Petit bought and closed RuSport and joined Forsythe. Gentilozzi is off to the side waiting for money to show up. And these guys OWN the series.

Judging by what's happened lately, it appears that KK is backing away (or meditating with the penguins again) because he hasn't said a word since before the JDSU trial. Forsythe and KK were known to disagree on things and it appears Forsythe is taking more command of this now and KK less command of it. The Cotman resignation points to that. Forsythe was known to favor the ex-SCCA mafia in the office. But time will tell.
I think for champcar to move forward it must embrace all the innovation that once made it great. Right now all open wheel racing is just existing and getting by. There is no forward progress being made by anyone. Do you think the irl is any better?

I have friends in and around the irl and it is not a rosey picture. Sponsors are not lining up to jump in, indy or not. Penske is secure, agr is secure for now, ganassi leachs funding off the nascar operation to pay for the irl team, tony george foots the bill for 2 cars and everyone else is struggling. Hardly a picture of great success after all these years.

I think we need one owner and one leader. I gave Steve Johnson a chance, but I have never liked him. I don't like what he did at the SCCA, especially with rallying.
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