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Old 6 Mar 2009, 15:04 (Ref:2410461)   #1
Chris Townsend
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March 793

One of the largest build runs for a March F3 car [25 built] and a lot still running or in collections, but so far very little input on chassis history or who had which car in period.

So, I'm starting this thread in the hope that current owners who know something of the history of their car will join in, and maybe attract a few period observations to boot.

Known chassis numbers

1: Works for Thackwell [period observation]

2: Unipart: Nigel Mansell

4: Claimed to be Alboreto's Euroracing chassis

12: Tiga for de Cesaris

13: Kenneth Acheson

15: Unipart: Brett Riley [probably new around Monaco, as is Acheson's car] Unipart run a 783 alongside 793-2 early season

17: Tiga for de Cesaris [new at Donington May] used only twice in season

19: Roger Heavens Racing new at Monaco, used by Bleekemolen and Borgudd in 1980 but maybe Boutsen's car in 1979

20: Project 4 for Serra [period observation], probably new May. Sold to Japan and used by Sasaki to win 1980 Japanese F3 championship, still being used in Japan 1983 by Kozo Okumura [period observation]

25: Unknown until 1983 until observed on Urs Hauenstein's car at Ecce Homo hillclimb

This leaves a lot of gaps. Given that de Cesaris has a 793 from early March and his first car is chassis 12, and Acheson doesn't get 13 until Monaco, the first batch seems to be 12 strong and we know four of them.
Debuting before Monaco in unknown cars we have:
Riccardo Paletti
Michael Korten
Pietro Villa
Freddy Schnarwiler
Mauro Baldi
Jurg Leinhard
Chico Serra
Piercarlo Ghinzani

It may be, of course, that March delivered later numbers out of sequence, and there were probably works "U" cars - although 1977 seems to be the last year that March do that with F2s and there are no "U" plates in the 1978 records for any of their cars.

Later in the season we have cars for:
Jean-Louis Schlesser
Stefan Johansson
Eddie Jordan, also used by Bernard Devaney [sold to Rick Whyman in 1980]
a second car for Roger Heavens
Michele Kropf
another Euroracing car
Jurg Leinhard

after 1979 one of the de Cesaris cars is used by Fred Krab, another goes to Tarry Racing
for Ian Shaw

Any advance on this??
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Old 9 Mar 2009, 13:00 (Ref:2412195)   #2
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Japanese cars:

I have, mostly from JAF result sheets which may or may not be total tosh, the following info:

793-20 for Sasaki in 1980, as you said, but:
793-21 for Okumura in 1983!!! Also:
793-25 for Akira Hagiwara in 1980/81, and Kazuhide Kase in 1982 - can hardly be the Hauenstein car, because Urs ran a 793 in 1982 already, unless he had two!

I'm not arguing, just stating what I have. Btw, 793s were VERY popular in Japan (they were almost certainly present in double figures by 1980!), and the first one ran there on May 1 in 1979 already (Jun Takahashi)! 793-20 was, I believe, on the market just a few years ago, seller Japanese?

European cars:

I have, early season:

Project Four - Serra
TIGA - de Cesaris
March - Thackwell
Korten - himself
Euroracing - Ghinzani
Euroracing - Alboreto
Spiess - Henzler
Lienhard - himself
Schnarwiler - himself

those already ran in March, then in late April/early May:

March - Herregods
Derby Corse - Avanzini ("793 nuova" may have been a modified 783???)
Baldi - himself
Takahashi - himself

then a number of "new" cars at Donington Euro, May 20 (a week before Monaco):

Pedersoli - himself (I'm sure that was a modified 783)
Baldi - himself (very probably the same as before)
McMahon - Johansson
McMahon - Jordan
Heavens - Bleekemolen
Heavens - Boutsen
Acheson - himself
TIGA - de Cesaris (spare car)
Project Four - Serra (spare car, actually "79C"!???)

At Monaco these cars appear in my records for the first time, although they may not be new:

Euroracing - Necchi
Schlesser - himself
Longobardi - Cazzaniga
Paletti - himself

Fast forward and before the end of the season the following drivers appear in 793s:

Konrad (Jun 24, second Korten entry)
Pescia (Jun 24, 783???)
Romano (Jun 24, 783???)
Villa (Jun 24)
Devaney (Sep 9 ex-Johansson, Nov 3 ex-Roe)
Rob Wilson (Sep 30, "new")
Borgudd (Oct 28)
Fleck (Nov 3)
Leslie (Nov 3, Heavens entry)
Ian Taylor (Nov 3, TIGA entry)

A few more mentions of former owners:

Rick Whyman 1980 (ex-Jordan)
Gero Fleck/Uwe Teuscher 1980/81/82 (ex-Korten)
Gero Fleck/Donald Bradway 1980/81 (ex-de Cesaris)
Ian Shaw 1982 (ex-de Cesaris)
Sakae Obata 1982 (ex-LaTour '80/81)

Likely:

Günter Gebhardt 1980 (ex-Henzler)
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Old 9 Mar 2009, 13:11 (Ref:2412203)   #3
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I'm unsure about the Unipart cars, I thought they were modified 783s??? Btw, I have Riley TWICE with a new tub, May 20 and June 10!
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Old 9 Mar 2009, 13:30 (Ref:2412218)   #4
Dan Rear
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The Unipart '79 Marches are a mystery Michael, they looked like 'podded' 783s, but apparently the team did have new 79 cars. See various posts on the 783 thread. Did Roe have a 793??
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Old 9 Mar 2009, 16:33 (Ref:2412334)   #5
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That was also a mystery to me, I only had the info "ex-Roe" for Devaney at the Thruxton TV race, perhaps just a mind lapse by the author?
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Old 10 Mar 2009, 17:21 (Ref:2413125)   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fines View Post
Japanese cars:

I have, mostly from JAF result sheets which may or may not be total tosh, the following info:

793-20 for Sasaki in 1980, as you said, but:
793-21 for Okumura in 1983!!! Also:
793-25 for Akira Hagiwara in 1980/81, and Kazuhide Kase in 1982 - can hardly be the Hauenstein car, because Urs ran a 793 in 1982 already, unless he had two!

I'm not arguing, just stating what I have. Btw, 793s were VERY popular in Japan (they were almost certainly present in double figures by 1980!), and the first one ran there on May 1 in 1979 already (Jun Takahashi)! 793-20 was, I believe, on the market just a few years ago, seller Japanese?

European cars:

I have, early season:

Project Four - Serra
TIGA - de Cesaris
March - Thackwell
Korten - himself
Euroracing - Ghinzani
Euroracing - Alboreto
Spiess - Henzler
Lienhard - himself
Schnarwiler - himself

those already ran in March, then in late April/early May:

March - Herregods
Derby Corse - Avanzini ("793 nuova" may have been a modified 783???)
Baldi - himself
Takahashi - himself

then a number of "new" cars at Donington Euro, May 20 (a week before Monaco):

Pedersoli - himself (I'm sure that was a modified 783)
Baldi - himself (very probably the same as before)
McMahon - Johansson
McMahon - Jordan
Heavens - Bleekemolen
Heavens - Boutsen
Acheson - himself
TIGA - de Cesaris (spare car)
Project Four - Serra (spare car, actually "79C"!???)

At Monaco these cars appear in my records for the first time, although they may not be new:

Euroracing - Necchi
Schlesser - himself
Longobardi - Cazzaniga
Paletti - himself

Fast forward and before the end of the season the following drivers appear in 793s:

Konrad (Jun 24, second Korten entry)
Pescia (Jun 24, 783???)
Romano (Jun 24, 783???)
Villa (Jun 24)
Devaney (Sep 9 ex-Johansson, Nov 3 ex-Roe)
Rob Wilson (Sep 30, "new")
Borgudd (Oct 28)
Fleck (Nov 3)
Leslie (Nov 3, Heavens entry)
Ian Taylor (Nov 3, TIGA entry)

A few more mentions of former owners:

Rick Whyman 1980 (ex-Jordan)
Gero Fleck/Uwe Teuscher 1980/81/82 (ex-Korten)
Gero Fleck/Donald Bradway 1980/81 (ex-de Cesaris)
Ian Shaw 1982 (ex-de Cesaris)
Sakae Obata 1982 (ex-LaTour '80/81)

Likely:

Günter Gebhardt 1980 (ex-Henzler)
Michael

I'd be inclined to believe the JAF data - if it's from period magazines. While researching chassis numbers for Japanese F2 I happened to come across a few numbers for F3 in that season. The F2 data I've seen, which is now for several races over several years, seems pretty accurate in that it never contradicts observations of European cars by reliable sources and the comments on who previously ran cars of European series origin are usually accurate.

Some comments on the above notes:
Baldi has a 793 at the very start of the season but is then back into his year old RT1 at Monaco; at Donington the 793 is described by Autosport as a 793 acquired to replace his recently crashed Ralt - first lap at Monaco I think.

Wilson's 793 is actually the ex Herregods 783-5; it gets a 793 tub late season

I think that the Avanzani car is indeed a modified 783 and may have been the 793 used by Baldi at the very start of the year

Roe didn't drive a 793; the comment about the Devaney car being ex Roe is Autosport report of the STP Trophy at Thruxton 4/11/79 and I think they mean ex Jordan!

Given that both de Cesaris cars survive, and the Jordan car, we should hope to get some current owners putting numbers to these cars and maybe clearing up some histories

Of the Unipart cars I think that they really had 793s [we do, after all have two cars with claimed Unipart history out there with 793 plates]
I think they started the season with one 793 [chassis 2] and a modified 783
The second 793 is with Unipart by Brands 10/6/79 when Riley's car is called a newly built 793 [this would imply it's chassis 15] At the same race Mansell's car is called 'the car used to good effect by Riley and Needell last season', so it's a 783 [they had two] and when Flux appears for the team at Thruxton 30/9/79 it's in what Autosport calls the team's usual spare and it's labelled a 783/93. This is after de Cesaris has landed on Mansell wrecking one of the 793s. So, I think Unipart have two real 793s [they had chassis 11 and 12 in 1978] and rotate the older cars as spares.

Paletti has his 793 at Vallelunga 18 March, along with
Alboreto
Korten
Leinhard
Baldi [suspect 783]
Henzler
Pedersoli [entered by the Brambilla bros...]
Pietro Villa [DNQ]
Schnarwiler

Chris
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Old 15 Mar 2009, 16:45 (Ref:2416060)   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Townsend View Post
Michael

Some comments on the above notes:
Baldi has a 793 at the very start of the season but is then back into his year old RT1 at Monaco; at Donington the 793 is described by Autosport as a 793 acquired to replace his recently crashed Ralt - first lap at Monaco I think.

Chris
Therein lies the rub - I know, most sources say Baldi drove a Ralt at Monaco, but he didn't! I have a picture (from German magazine "rallye racing" 7/79, p52) which clearly shows Baldi in a 793 with #28 in the Mirabeau corner, with a crumpled nose section from the start crash! He DID use a Ralt at Vallelunga (Mar 18) and Nürburgring (Apr 1/cancelled snow) according to what I have, I don't know what he had at Zeltweg (Apr 15) but at Zolder (Apr 22) he's still reported in a Ralt, and retiring in a crash! First race I have him in the 793 is Magny-Cours (May 1), but I don't have much info on the domestic Italian races.
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Old 15 Mar 2009, 16:50 (Ref:2416064)   #8
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About Roe, meanwhile I have found this:

http://www.formula2.net/F379_GB20.htm

And this:

http://www.formula2.net/F379_GB23.htm

Not sure how reliable that is, though.
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Old 17 Mar 2009, 06:47 (Ref:2417167)   #9
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Unipart

At the end of season race at Thruxton Mansell had 783-11 and Riley was also in a 783.
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Old 17 Mar 2009, 18:13 (Ref:2417652)   #10
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Originally Posted by Alan Brown View Post
At the end of season race at Thruxton Mansell had 783-11 and Riley was also in a 783.
Alan

Did you observe any of the 793s at that race?

Chris
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Old 19 Mar 2009, 06:48 (Ref:2418972)   #11
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793-14

The only 793 number observed in 1979 was 793-14 at the Easter Thruxton, Chico Serra/Project Four.
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Old 16 Jan 2010, 18:13 (Ref:2614359)   #12
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delta should be qualifying in the top 5 on the griddelta should be qualifying in the top 5 on the griddelta should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
My 793 is chassis no 19. I bought the car from a guy in Reading way back in 1987. We thought Bleekemolen raced his Ralt at Monaco? He later switched to the March half way through the year and finished 2nd to Prost in the Euro championship.Be interesting to find out if she was raced at Monaco as i am pondering over the entry form at the moment. Also if anyone has a period photo this would be fantastic as we have drawn a blank.Thanks Iain Rowley. "delta"
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Old 18 Jan 2010, 02:25 (Ref:2614918)   #13
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My 793 is chassis no 19. I bought the car from a guy in Reading way back in 1987. We thought Bleekemolen raced his Ralt at Monaco? He later switched to the March half way through the year and finished 2nd to Prost in the Euro championship.Be interesting to find out if she was raced at Monaco as i am pondering over the entry form at the moment. Also if anyone has a period photo this would be fantastic as we have drawn a blank.Thanks Iain Rowley. "delta"
Hi Iain,

I have a few not very good shots (it was very wet, and, er, I was not very good at it ...) from the May 1979 meeting at Donington

Info here; http://www.formula2.net/F379_E22.htm

However the Roger Heavens entries were all Ralts. It seems that Boutsen changed his RH entry to a 793 the next week at Monte Carlo. Neither Boutseon nor Bleekmolen escaped the heast at Donington, both finishing 14th.

http://www.formula2.net/F379_E26.htm

where some bloke called Prost won.

They must have been good days. 66 entries for Monaco and 55 turned up to qualify for 20 grid places. 47 entries for Donington and 41 turned up.

Boutsen in the RHR March did not qualify.

Bleekmolen was in a RHR Ralt and finished 9th about 1.5 seconds off 6th.

So, I assume that chassis 19 was not to be seen at that Donington meeting - at least not on track. I don't think I have anything from 1980 but I doubt it was out at Donington anyway and it looks like there was no F3 event at Donington in '81.

Maybe one of the larger archives would have something?
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Old 18 Jan 2010, 09:06 (Ref:2615016)   #14
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delta should be qualifying in the top 5 on the griddelta should be qualifying in the top 5 on the griddelta should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Grant this is mega thankyou. We need to meet up even more now so i can buy you that beer."or two"
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Old 18 Jan 2010, 11:08 (Ref:2615073)   #15
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Grant this is mega thankyou. We need to meet up even more now so i can buy you that beer."or two"
You're very welcome Iain - 'twas nothing much. Just sorry that my few poor shots would be of no help at all. They are obviously not that good since I have not scanned them and I'm not sure where the negatives are anyway.

I spent a little time experimenting with attempts to find something in the archives. Most of the bigger ones I know about seems to have greatly reduced access compared to the last time I had a look around. So that means loads of F1 stuff visible but not much else. I can't believe there is nothing from, say, Boutsen's Monaco practice. Finding it may be more challenging. Pick an archive and ask the admin people to run a search I guess. The pro stuff is likely to be adequately tagged and indexed. Failing that a few of the pro/semi-pro people covering historics have been around for a while and may have something from the period. Or perhaps teams/drivers in their personal collections?
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